[Solved] Travel arrangements

Hi. Unfortunately, the only way to try to enforce the agreement is to go back to court for the breach of the order.

Thanks Actd - do you reckon the judge court just tell him to do it?

It will also have to be once she has actually breached it!

Or do you reckon my partner could argue that if the mother wants to change the order she needs to follow procedure and bring him back to court with the relevant order.

Just so frustrating that its always us having the spend the money to go back to court.

hi,

what is the travel distance/time?

It is 30 minutes to 45 with traffic.
Public transport is 1hr 45-2hrs

30-45 min is not bad. mine is 30 mins on average. i know travel arrangements mentioned in your order, but i don't think it would be worth it to go through all that court hassle over this. we have all had to make sacrifices for the kids post-breakup. i am looking for a new job and just find it awkward asking about childcare issues. i never thought of asking ex to do travel as she doesnt drive. her family do but they are useless and do everything an hour late.

Hi Ldad.

Do you mind me asking, how long has the Order been in effect, how much contact has been missed as a result of these breaches and was there any timeline for your partner getting a vehicle?

Not trying to play devil's advocate here, but trying to add a layer of realism as to what might happen if you go back to Court over this.

A Judge/lay magistrate will likely consider the following:

1. If contact hasn't been occurring (for whatever reason) for a period, is it in the child's best interest for it to kickstart without a slow transition again? This is even a bigger factor when overnight contact is concerned and the kids are young. Just be mindful this is something the other side may bring up.

2. Are both parties (not just mum) doing everything they can to ensure contact is happening? I know it's not right especially as you have an Order, but the Court may be inclined to think that many have to travel further/longer for less time.

3. Is this an issue that is really worth the Court's time or could it be seen as trifling/vexatious?

For yourselves, you'll also want to consider if this will help/hinder what little (if any) positive communication there is between the parents.

Just a few smaller thoughts, but your partner may want to do a journey or two (even if by public transport). Keep a record of the impact this is having on the child too as that is the key thing here. At a minimum, you'll have some currency if you do unfortunately end up at Court to show you have tried to maintain the contact and that you've been playing ball even with the breaches of the Order.

Also, in writing, follow up with the mother to explain that you're doing all you can on that front, so a meeting of minds in the middle somewhere has to happen. Gently remind that you both want best as parents of the child, and that you are open to any realistic and workable suggestions that would avoid either party seeking litigation for things that you can hopefully resolve outside the Court setting.

I know it is a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation so you'll need to weigh up what is right for you guys and the child involved.

CD.

I always play devils advocate because you have to – never know!

1. Contact has not been stopped so no issues there just the threat to reduce contact (also previous breaches of the order but not worth running back to court over)
2. I’m not sure – my partner has been flexible with drop off times and extended it beyond the court times. He is speaking to work to see if he can leave earlier to collect the child himself via public transport. He is willing to do public transport but not on the current basis as they will not return home until 9pm. I don’t know if there is anything else he can do to help – open to suggestions of course, especially as an outside point of view!
3. I feel like most their issues is not worth courts time but she has threatened a few other things so although this is minor, collectively it may be worth it.
Okay so long story try to keep short. (throughout Mother accused Father of being aggressive, called the police on him, filed reports against him - all false)
In 2016 he took her to court for a child arrangement order as she refused contact for 4+ months. Between this and finalising agreement he built up contact time 4hrs/6hrs/8hrs/overnight etc.
In 2017 they finalised the agreement which included sat-sun overnight contact, extended contact during school holidays and parents to gradually build overnights so child spends 7 nights with father by her 5th birthday (extended contact to only take place during school holidays) and he offered to do all travel arrangements until the mother could address her issue with driving as she raised concerns about driving to places she has never been before. This was written in the court order.
In 2017 she refused contact on the basis that father hit mother and hit child 2 separate occasions (false allegations) and refused to follow the court order by not increasing child's overnight stays during school holidays.
Father took mother for an enforcement and asked the judge to vary the order. Judge refused to vary so father reapplied to vary the current child arrangement order. Judge did slightly vary the order by changing the handover location from the mothers home to a Tesco near to her home during enforcement hearing.
Reapplied for variation: During varying court order Mother continued to allege abuse including father hitting his child, father hitting me (his partner), father hitting his mother etc. So the court ordered for section 7 to be completed. (Contact was taking place Saturday-Sunday handovers at Tesco but mother still refused to extend contact during school holidays)
Section 7 completed in favour of Father with no safeguarding concerns, they said that although the Child to have contact with Father:
Friday – Sunday evening every other weekend, Half of Summer, Christmas and Easter, Alternative Christmas, Shared travel arrangements, Father to take child abroad providing he provides mother with information
From the S7 to the final hearing there was maybe 6 months gap and the Mother announced she was pregnant. During the final hearing the Judge agreed with S7 recommendations but Mother said that she cannot drive due to pregnancy and she has a planned C section and cannot drive 6 weeks after. Judge said that it was important child contact increased from Sat-Sun to Fri-Sun and that Friday contact was to start 6 weeks after Mother gave birth so she or her partner can drop off child on Friday contact for 5:30pm, but did say when Father has use of a vehicle he is to collect. Also Father is to drop child on Sunday for 7:30pm. No timeline was put in place for him to buy a vehicle and Friday evenings only started 5 months ago now.
So that’s the history – what has happened since: Baby refers to mothers new child with new partner – child refers to her child with my partner.
On the first Friday contact took place mother messaged father and said Friday evenings are not working out as it took 2 hour round trip. She said that it was unfair on her baby (although the child, her baby, the mother and her partner all travelled on this day, so that could have easily been avoided if the father of the baby stayed home or the mother of the baby stayed home whilst the other conducted the travel)
Father was flexible for mothers partner to do travel as he would only be able to arrive at a later time than the time specified on the court order. Father was fine with this. The mother then said she is unable to do the travel as she must be with the baby as she is breastfeeding and refuses to allow the baby to be in anyone elses care. About 2 months later she had stopped breastfeeding and left her baby in the care of others but used the excuse that no one was available on Friday evening to care for her baby whilst she does the travel for her child.
In the meantime, the mother’s partner has been doing the travel but not obliged to the times of the order 5:30pm – however this is minor and not an issue for us. There have been a few occasions they have not dropped the child to us on Friday but not worth going back to court for. Also, my partner has collected his child as of when he has had use of my vehicle i.e when I am not at work which is rare.
And now the mother has said she has anxiety and cannot drive. She has said that her partner will not be home until 6 pm and therefore cannot drop child to us. And the mother has given the father the ultimatum to collect child at 5pm/7pm or Saturday morning 9:30am.
I spoke to my partner about collecting the child himself via public transport but they will not return home until 9pm and I don’t think this is a solution and I don’t think he should do it to prove the negative impact on their child. My partner is also in the process of speaking to his work to see if he can leave early to make public transport an option which may mean a decrease in wage (if they even agree) which we cannot afford to do but may be our only option. But to be honest, I don’t see why her partner cannot continue doing the travel leaving at 6 when he gets home getting the child to us 6:30-7pm? The mother also collects the child from school, so another option would be her getting public transport but she would not do this and she feels its not her place to have to take the child to him.
To be honest the best solution would be affording a second vehicle and father collecting child each Friday contact is due so there are no issues or arguments but unfortunately we decided to buy a 2 bedroom place, which means higher repayments, bills etc and that was decided so that his child can have her own room and space when she is with us including her own wardrobe etc so she feels at home and not living out of a suitcase giving her the best possible homely environment. Because of this we cannot afford that second vehicle.
He has sent an email to say he is checking with work and doing what he can, he has also said that he is willing for the child to be dropped at 7:30pm ready for bed as opposed to 5:30pm so the contact time isn’t massively affected as the child will still wake up at dads and have Saturday morning with dad. Having gone from sat-sun to fri-sun contact I cannot explain what a difference it has made to their relationship!

hi,

should be able to get a reliable car for £500. if a 2nd car is out of the question, than can uber it for a few pounds. if hes paying through CMS and see if they will class these costs as special expense, and they can possibly reduce his payments.