[Solved] NIghts declared to the CSA?

Hi there and welcome

Have you used the CSA calculator to work out the amount you will be asked to pay? Here's a link

www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance

It's very difficult to prove how many nights the non resident parent has the children and unfortunately the CSA (or CMS as they are now) will often take the word of the primary carer.

Here's a link to a he government leaflet on Maintenance and how it is worked out

http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85746/how-we-work-out-child-maintenance.pdf

If you have issues surrounding contact and the children are unhappy about the reduction in contact with you then you might like to look into the options available to you, mediation being the first step.

www.nfm.org.uk

If you have specific questions about the options open to you then please don't hesitate to post in the Legal Eagle section and someone will be around to assist you.

Best of luck 🙂

Hi Gofannon,

I think you are right, this is to do with money and not much else. I'm in a similar position, my son resides with me very slightly under half the time, but his mother strictly regulates nights in order to justify a CM claim via CSA. The result is that I pay about 7% of my post tax income in CM and she also claims CB. This is a very common situation and not really in the best interests of the children involved, but I'm afraid people (generally) are often willing to go to quite bizarre lengths for fairly small amounts of money.

Would I be right in thinking you have been paying your ex-wife less than (about) 7% of your residual income (perhaps you paid nothing, which sounds perfectly reasonable if you have been providing for them half the time)? If so then your ex-wife has realised she can get some more money by doing nothing much (even if this will be cutting off her nose to spite her face in that she will have to pay a child minder for those 19 or so nights when it suited her for you to look after the children - again this is not rare). CSA will not be concerned whether what she wants is fair or reasonable, it is a debt collection agency.

What could you do about it? I don't know whether you want to (or are able to) look after your children for half the time (in which case there would be no CM bill)? If you are then you could take this to a court to have such a direction made, but I suspect that after 6 years of working okay a court would be unlikely to change the existing arrangement just to save you some of your income. You could speak with your ex-wife (or go through mediation, which I think would be a waste of time as your ex-wife's motive is money, and the mediation would just cost you even more) to see if you can buy her off without going through CSA (may be CMS now) and so not restricting the days your children enjoy with you.

I'm afraid yours is (again) a well trodden path; it seems entirely unfair as your expenses are probably the same as your ex-wife's in looking after the children (and you have done the right thing by staying by them), but this is a loophole.

There will be a link somewhere on this site that directs you to a calculator that will work out the CM payments for you,

Very best wishes,

O

You don't mention the age of your children, if they are approaching 16 then I suspect they will see this for what it is, and may well vote with their feet and choose to stay with you rather than their mother (I don't know whether that would be practical or desirable for you).

Hi O, and thanks for sharing your opinion and thoughts.. yes a well trodden path !

My children are 10 and 13 years old. I do believe that it is financially motivated and noting more but what is extremely frustrating is that we both have joint parental responsibility but she dictates and makes the children upset.

I am afraid she will win now and I will lose out on the additional nights with the children and I will have to pay her more. I have been paying without fail on the 1st of every month for over 6+ years a figure much higher than that that was statutory. The children are in full time education but she only works 2 day's a week as a district nurse. I do believe I am paying her to live this lifestyle and not towards the children's standard of living.,,, a very biased system in favour of the mother!

Hi is there a telephone number to speak with your Legal Eagle team?

Much appreciated.

Hi Gofannon,

I'm sorry, but that is the case. It will be a great pity for you and your children to see each other a bit less.

Regarding money: if you have been paying your ex-wife more than the statutory amount than CMS would charge, then your CM contribution should go down rather than up, if that happens she really will be cutting off her nose to spite her face (but again, that would hardly be rare).

Just remain being a good dad for your children, they will appreciate it.

Best wishes,

O

HI one more question if I may, you mention 7% how is that figure created? I thought I would have to pay the basic formula for three nights which is 12%????

Much appreciated is all you kind advice!

I'm sorry we don't have a helpline unfortunately. If you wish to discuss your situation privately you can always send a PM to myself or any of the other Moderators.

As you were paying a figure much higher than the statutory amount then she has really cut her nose off to spite her face! Perhaps if you were to write to her and point out that her maintenance will drop significantly if she continues along this path and insists on going through the CMS. Tell her you have used the calculator to work out the amount you would be liable for and it is a lot less...suggest that she closes the case with the CMS and returns to the original agreement, which you would be happy to do. Remind her that this isn't just about the money, more importantly it's the effect that reducing contact will have on the children who have been happy and settled with the original agreement.

You could suggest mediation as a way to discuss any issues she may have and express the wish to work together in the childs best interests.

I gave you a link in my first reply with a link to the CMS guide about calculating amounts

http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85746/how-we-work-out-child-maintenance.pdf

If you read through this it will go into more detail about the calculations, for two children I believe the calculation is 16% of gross income less 3/7ths for the overnights reduction., but higher or lower earners pay a different percentage, but please check that via the link I have provided.

Hi Gofannon,

I can't remember the exact details, but I think Mojo sent you a link to the CSA's calculator. I think it is worked out is bands depending on the number of nights/year the children stay with you (156, or maybe more due to holidays?). For me the amount works out as (about) 7% of my income after tax. Bear in mind I only have one child, I suppose the amount would be more for two, which probably accounts for the higher figure (12%) that you quote. Mojo knows much more about this than do I.

If you have indeed been paying more than the statutory amount then it would be reduced, in which case I'd follow Mojo's advice.

Best wishes,

O

Hi O and Mojo I am sorry for the delay and the inconsistency in my reply I was unable to view all your comments on my small smawr phone screen yesterday. However I have read and clicked on the link and I am very grateful you both.

Hi Gofannon,
I hope that was in some way useful, Mojo is a real expert and will be able to help you if you need it, I'm just a dad trying to do the best for my son. Sometimes I do feel as if I have one hand tied behind my back (by the state, government agencies, schools &c, who consider fathers an inconvenience except when it comes to paying the bills).
I rather agree with you that CM payments in shared residency cases are more about subsidising mothers' lifestyles than looking after children. It looks unlikely that anything can be done to change this (well, not at least in my lifetime), so I just concentrate on being a good dad and pay for his mother's holidays.
Ho hum,
O