[Solved] Holidays and going abroad

Hi unfortunately, the resident parent can do that.

I think your best bet is to apply for variation / specific issue orders in respect of holidays, that way it removes the need of having to fall out with the mother over it.

If she won't agree to hand over the passport ahead of the holiday, it might be something you want to consider doing sooner rather than later. As she won't agree to Disneyland, you can use that as your court application and ask the court to make a specific issue order on when passports are exchanged.

You can only get an emergency hearing on a working day if she decides to be difficult so it's probably better to deal with things now.

It is mandatory to attempt mediation before you can apply to court unless applying for an emergency hearing.

Thanks for the response. I was hoping for something more permanent? I don't want to go through this every time I want to take him on a holiday, it costs £215 just for the application fee to court. That's doubling the price for him to go on the holiday.

Is there any other avenue? I was thinking of applying for an amendment to the court order to state that I am entitled to take Jack abroad for holidays during his time with me. It's just a paper trail to remove the need to have a reappearance in court every year.

I don't see why this would be a problem? Do you know if anyone had this put in a court order before?

That is what a variation is.

If you apply now regarding Disneyland and ask the court to vary the current order in respect of holidays, you shouldn't need to return to court.

For example, an order might say;

February Half Term with mother

Easter one week with each parent

May Half Term with father

Summer Holidays three weeks with each parent (not necessarily 3 week blocks)

October Half Term to be split equally with a handover Wednesday afternoon

Christmas Holiday one week with each parent so that Christmas Day alternates between the parents

That is just an example of what an order of shared holidays might look like. If you're intending to apply to court to vary the order and raise the specific issue of your recent request, you will need to think about;
what holidays you can take and when
when passports are handed over
request the order is clear on foreign holidays
request that the order makes provision for holidays with the paternal family

Hope that helps

Thanks. We already have a court order which states how the holidays are shared, so I know the days I can take our son on holiday. I think I may be misinterpreting the court order but I thought I needed permission from his mother to take him abroad. The end of the court order refers to the following from the children's act 1989:-

Section 13 of Childrens Act 1989. Change of child’s name or removal from jurisdiction.
.

(1) Where a [F1child arrangements order to which subsection (4) applies] is in force with respect to a child, no person may—
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(a) cause the child to be known by a new surname; or
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(b) remove him from the United Kingdom;
.
without either the written consent of every person who has parental responsibility for the child or the leave of the court.

(2) Subsection (1)(b) does not prevent the removal of a child, for a period of less than one month, by [F2a person named in the child arrangements order as a person with whom the child is to live ].

So the court order first line states that my son resides with his mother. Because of this I assumed I needed written permission from his mother to take him abroad as per (1) above. However because the court order states he will spend time with me at the stated date/ times, then I may be covered by (2) above? He does live with me at the dates/times detailed, so am I entitled to take him abroad ?

I'm not sure on this technicality. He officially resides with his mother, but lives with me during the set dates/times. When it comes to holidays abroad, do I need her written permission or not?

Hello Jack my son was in court last week about this very subject, plus some others. He has a child arrangement order and all holidays detailed. The order also says child to reside with mother. My son sent in a C100 specific order to vary the current order. Because she refuses to let him take his son abroad on holiday. She says he struggles to be away from her ! Because the current order says he lives with her, she can take him away for up to 28 days a year, he can not.
At the court the clerk said it is normal practice for the parent holding the passport to hand it over 28 days prior to the holiday, they asked for the reason why she didn't want him to go, she spouted behavioural,problems, the courts said would do him good then to have a holiday lol. We have got to go back in April, I think they will allow it. My son is going to ask for the order to state that he can take the child out of the country for up to 28!days without needing permission.
If I'm reading your post correctly and presumably because you are named on the order as stated, doesn't it mean you can already do this. have you got A solicitor you could ask them to send her a letter and get it in writing back that she is in agreement with the holidays. If she does then break it, surely the courts will take that as her giving permission. Sorry if this is waffle. I'm just a Nan.

.... I'm just a Nan.

No, you're not just a nan - you are someone who cares. That makes you someone special. 🙂

Thanks for sharing your story, I really appreciate it. It sounds like I'm in the same situation as your son, it's amazing how much time and money is wasted on things like this isn't it!? When you go to court for a C100 court order because parents are being controlling even on contact arrangements, why don't they make sure holidays abroad are covered on the original order? I bet there's thousands of people who think they are finally finished with court, only to find out the order doesn't cover them to go on a holiday abroad! I had no idea the order would state at the end of it, as standard, that I couldn't take him abroad without written permission, yet would be able to do as she pleases. That was never even discussed as being part of the court order!? It just puts the irresponsible controlling parents back on a throne to play their games again.

Maybe there's too many people making money from it....

Can you please message me with an update on how the court hearing goes, if they allow the amendment to the order stating your son can also take his child abroad for 28 days, and if they put in an agreement on when passports have to be handed over?..

Thanks again! 🙂

Hi yes I will update you. When we realised that something as important as this was missed off our original order, I contacted the very expensive barrister to ask her why she never thought to cover it off on the day, she never replied. My son also included childcare arrangements in his specific order. Our ex doesn't like me looking after my sons son if he needs to work while in my sons care, she insist he should go back to her, he doesn't. To try and preempt all future issues, he is going for shared residency, don't hold out much hope but you never know. He is saying he wants to be seen as a equal parent. I am now looking for a professional to attend the court to help him. But again, why didn't the barrister automatically go for shared residency, paid her enough. The fight continues....

It's crazy isn't it. I've went to a solicitor and asked about shared residence before I went to court, I didn't understand what the difference was. I never once got a straight answer about what the difference was with applying for shared residence.

I understand everyone has different problems in these situations but you think there would be a very simple check sheet to make sure every topic is covered when creating a court order in these circumstances. Otherwise it's inevitable that you have to keep going back to court. What annoyed me most about the 'taking your child abroad', is that you don't know about the additional comments in the court order until you've left court and you receive a copy of the court order. Not once in court does anyone ask if you accept those terms or tell you that you will actually be agreeing to them!?

My concern now is that there are other topics that are waiting for me to discover which I don't know about.

Can I ask why your son is considering going for shared residence? What difference does it make to his rights and how it could effect him if he doesn't get shared residence?

Hi Jack,

It occurs to me that maybe when you apply for the variation..... ask for the new order to state that the children live with their mother XXXX and LIVE with you on YYYYY. surly this will then give you automatic right to take your child on holiday for up to 28 days the same as the mother?...... this would have to be run through with a solicitor to confirm as this is only my thoughts.... but if you find this is correct then please post accordingly .

I also agree with not knowing about the additional comments tacked on to courts orders that were never discussed in court or asked about..... similar about the use of terminology such as contact and shared care..... I've read about them but it doesn't give you specifics about what this actually means in terms of how it could possible affect you and your kids in the future as per your examples above......

one surprising i got was right at the beginning of court...... i was not to contact mother except for making arrangements for contact with kids which i agreed to...... then line below stated that all arrangements for contact was going to be between the mother and my dad!..... no idea where this came from.... lucky as was interim order but took 3 months before got it changed as my dad was being messed around..... I also had no idea that by agreeing to this it effectively stopped me asking about how my kids were doing or anything about their lives.... you just don't realise the implications of the wording at the time.

I agree that it would be very. very useful to have a checklist that covered the points and wording that need considering for agreeing any final orders.

Hello
We are hoping /thinking that by having shared residency, he can do all the things she can do without needing ask her permission or keep going back to court. To cover off all those things you don't think about at the court hearing, There is a lot of parent alienation going on against my son. His child my grandson has been told don't play with daddy, daddy is naughty, not nice, don't stay at daddy's ask to come home !! She doesn't tell him about GP appointments or even that he is off nursery poorly. She text every day when his son is with him, asking if he is ok, she expects him to fill in her communication book to tell her what he has eaten, where he has been, who he has seen etc. Not long after the court case, during which she tried and failed to accuse my son of being violent towards her, she went to the police and tried to get them to listen to her lies, she wanted them to record a load of false backdated claims of violence. Backfired and she got told off for wasting police time. Her dad has followed my son and threatened him twice, claiming he knows where he works and for who, watch your back and your job, out case cost 8k and took 2 years, during which time I didn't see my grandson. I saw him when he was first born and not again until he was just over 2 years old. My poor son missed him crawling, walking,first tooth,first word. However we final had the final hearing and got a brilliant child arrangement order 8 overnights in a 2'week period, plus 2 after school visits. The best thing is its pick up and drop off from school on the 8'overnights, so we don't see the ex.
We are back in court in April and I'm scared something will go wrong, he did represent himself last week. I've phoned 2 solicitors today who both want around £1000 for 3 hours at court !!