[Solved] Coronavirus - is that it for us now? No contact?

BBC news he was on this morning at 7:30am

Hi,

Yes i believe physical contact should continue, providing you can do so in a safe way.

Michael Gove has just gone on to BBC and confirmed that children under age of 18 should have contact between parents' home.

I have a recording of what was exactly said but unsure how to post this.

Good luck

Michael Gove U-turns after saying children of divorce ‘must stay in home they are currently in’

Michael Gove has added confusion to the already mixed messages the public are receiving over lockdown measures by giving differing advice to separated and divorced families today. Speaking to ITV this morning, he said children in families that are separated must now stay in whatever home they are currently living in.

The senior minister said it will be ‘incredibly difficult’ but that if a child has divorced parents who live in separate homes they will now only be able to live with one parent while the lockdown is in place.

Just a few minutes after his appearance, he took to Twitter to say his message ‘wasn’t clear enough’ and that in fact, children under 18 can move between separated parents.

His later tweet read: ‘I wasn’t clear enough earlier, apologies. To confirm – while children should not normally be moving between households, we recognise that this may be necessary when children who are under 18 move between separated parents. ‘This is permissible and has been made clear in the guidance.’ He confirmed this in a later interview with the BBC, telling hosts: ‘I wasn’t sufficiently clear earlier, children under the age of 18 can see both parents.’

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/24/children-divorce-must-stay-home-currently-12446391/?ito=cbshare

To semifinalist:-

I understood fully where you were coming from and was certainly not questioning your awareness, the responsible approach you have and the appreciation you have of the seriousness of the situation. You were expressing concern regarding a dilemma which affects so many of us.
I responded to your message as I had made up my mind what my personal thoughts were regarding contact with my grandchildren and it hurts like [censored] the conclusion I have come to.

Of course parents should talk sensibly what safeguards and action should be taken during this pandemic but as many of us know that doesn't happen. Many parents do not "sing from the same hymn sheet" in how each is behaving at such a time which leaves doubts and many questions in the non resident parents mind when it comes to contact with their children, understandably. Many are dealing with both toxic exes and the impact of this virus. Absolutely dreadful situation to be in but we shall all make decisions based on our own personal circumstances and hope that the repercussions of those decisions will not worsen the situation we were in before the corona virus began.

To Ldad

I too heard Michael Gove say on Radio 4 (before 8.00 am.) this morning that children should have contact between both parents homes. If I remember correctly this is what Cafcass were saying last week.

** MICHAEL GOVE again today **

I was told by a relative that Piers Morgan on ITV Good Morning Breakfast asked Michael Gove what the children of separated parents should be doing. I believe Michael Gove said they should stay with the resident parent and only skype.
I have yet to listen to this on the ITV hub which I don't think they have put on yet. I'm very interested to know if it is true as it is a contradiction to what was said on Radio 4.

I think we can expect and be prepared for things to change hour by hour.

I wish you all the very best you can make of life at such a time.

hi,

michael gove thing has been cleared up:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/24/children-divorce-must-stay-home-currently-12446391/?ito=cbshare

have been sending this information to ex, but expecting it to just fall on deaf ears. main reason why they are doing it is to have extended school holidays and keep the father away. very selfish.

Well done Bill. It's now down to each individual and their circumstances now.

I've been speaking to family, and I am feeling very conflicted.

My ex lives on the other side of the city, so I would need to get a taxi if I was to have her during this time. Taxis are still running but can't help but feel they are a hotbed for the virus, of which I don't want my daughter to pick up, nor myself. So it's a definite risk.

Dad and my sister are saying absolutely no contact with my daughter. They have been very black and white about it, displaying no empathy or compassion, given how the idea of not seeing our children for what could be a long time is really distressing (whether they are right or not). I understand their stance on it, but all I really wanted was for them to acknowledge I was hurting.

My mum is on the fence. Whatever I decide basically. She didn't think taxis would be running, so suggested my sister might be able to help out with a lift when she's not working (which mean less contact with my daughter, but at least it's something). However, she said there's no way she would do it, that she couldn't live with herself if she infected my daughter or I (I have severe M.E, so there's concern there, which is another thing I have to consider).

My ex emailed me last night to offer phone and video calls. I have been thinking on it all day before replying. I feel so torn. After speaking to my family, I felt like the right thing to do was to, as my dad suggested, accept the phone and video calls and play it day by day. To say I wouldn't do physical contact generally, but let my ex know that I could do the odd day if she needs a break or help with homeschooling. So, I keep going to email my ex to tell her that and schedule some regular video calls, but then there's another part of me which feels like I am being a bad parent by not having contact considering what Michael Gove has now said. And of course, if we put the dangers of the virus aside, I just want to see my daughter. I just worry about how long it will be before I see her again. If my ex was within walking distance or I was able to drive, it might be more feasible.

Having ME/CFS is one of the conditions that the government have said should self isolate I believe. My personal opinion here is that you should accept your ex's offer - if you catch Covid-19, you are, at best, going to miss all contact with your daughter if you are hospitalised, and at worst, she could lose you altogether. In addition, you are including other members of your family which is putting them at risk, and also burdening them if anything does happen to you.

I would ride this out, accept the phone/skype calling while this virus is a danger, and then resume contact when it's over. You could ask your ex if, once it's over, you can have your daughter for a holiday to make up the time, and that them gives you and your daughter something to look forward to.

hi,

i agree with actd, as there are underlying medication conditions, better to do video calls. sounds like you are very fearful. but i think you are being over-protective with the taxi issue. private car, taxi much safer than bus or train.

the PM said this situation will be reviewed in 3 weeks. i have feeling lockdown will be extended/tightened, as some idiot commuters are still overcrowding trains in london.

Yeah, M.E/CFS is an odd one. I don't think it's been mentioned explicitly. I spoke to my occupational therapist last week though, and she explained that technically we fall into the vulnerable category. She said it is less likely that the virus would put someone with M.E in hospital or cause a fatality than other vulnerable conditions, but the danger is that it could cause a bad relapse, take much longer to get over the virus, or bring about new or worsened symptoms that we then have to live with. So I'm vulnerable, but (and I could be wrong), I won't be receiving that letter/email/phone call to say I have to stay isolated for 3 months, for example.

I have emailed my ex outlining what video call contact I would like. I hope to be able to do more than just chat with my daughter - play games, read, do activities, help her with her homeschooling, etc. I'm still working out how, but will find a way!

Hello semifinalist,

My opinion is exactly the same as actd's.

I personally would accept the offer of the 'phone and video calls. You can keep reviewing your decision.
Please do not feel a "bad" parent, you are not. You are being sensible in my opinion.

ex has sent me this information and saying it would be unreasonable and irresponsible for direct contact now. saying i should give a device that has data and any resources required. i said i dont have spare phone and not in position to buy one. can give laptop, that can be used to make skype calls.

Coronavirus Crisis: Guidance on Compliance with Family Court Child Arrangement Orders

During the current Coronavirus Crisis some parents whose children are the subject of Child Arrangements Orders made by the Family Court have been understandably concerned about their ability to meet the requirements of these court orders safely in the wholly unforeseen circumstances that now apply.

This short statement is intended to offer advice but, as the circumstances of each child and family will differ, any advice can only be in the most general form.

Parental responsibility for a child who is the subject of a Child Arrangements Order [‘CAO’] made by the Family Court rests with the child’s parents and not with the court.
The country is in the middle of a Public Health crisis on an unprecedented scale. The expectation must be that parents will care for children by acting sensibly and safely when making decisions regarding the arrangements for their child and deciding where and with whom their child spends time.

Parents must abide by the ‘Rules on Staying at Home and Away from Others’ issued by the government on 23 March [‘the Stay at Home Rules’]. In addition to these Rules, advice about staying safe and reducing the spread of infection has been issued and updated by Public Health England and Public Health Wales [‘PHE/PHW’].

The Stay at Home Rules have made the general position clear: it is no longer permitted for a person, and this would include a child, to be outside their home for any purpose other than essential shopping, daily exercise, medical need or attending essential work.
Government guidance issued alongside the Stay at Home Rules on 23rd March deals specifically with child contact arrangements.

It says:
“Where parents do not live in the same household, children under 18 can be moved between their parents’ homes.”

This establishes an exception to the mandatory ‘stay at home’ requirement; it does not, however, mean that children must be moved between homes. The decision whether a child is to move between parental homes is for the child’s parents to make after a sensible assessment of the circumstances, including the child’s present health, the risk of infection and the presence of any recognised vulnerable individuals in one household or the other.

More generally, the best way to deal with these difficult times will be for parents to communicate with one another about their worries, and what they think would be a good, practical solution. Many people are very worried about Coronavirus and the health of themselves, their children and their extended family. Even if some parents think it is safe for contact to take place, it might be entirely reasonable for the other parent to be genuinely worried about this.

Where parents, acting in agreement, exercise their parental responsibility to conclude that the arrangements set out in a CAO should be temporarily varied they are free to do so. It would be sensible for each parent to record such an agreement in a note, email or text message sent to each other.

Where parents do not agree to vary the arrangements set out in a CAO, but one parent is sufficiently concerned that complying with the CAO arrangements would be against current PHE/PHW advice, then that parent may exercise their parental responsibility and vary the arrangement to one that they consider to be safe. If, after the event, the actions of a parent acting on their own in this way are questioned by the other parent in the Family Court, the court is likely to look to see whether each parent acted reasonably and sensibly in the light of the official advice and the Stay at Home Rules in place at that time, together with any specific evidence relating to the child or family.

Where, either as a result of parental agreement or as a result of one parent on their own varying the arrangements, a child does not get to spend time with the other parent as set down in the CAO, the courts will expect alternative arrangements to be made to establish and maintain regular contact between the child and the other parent within the Stay at Home Rules, for example remotely – by Face-Time, WhatsApp Face-Time, Skype, Zoom or other video connection or, if that is not possible, by telephone.

The key message should be that, where Coronavirus restrictions cause the letter of a court order to be varied, the spirit of the order should nevertheless be delivered by making safe alternative arrangements for the child.

The Rt. Hon. Sir Andrew McFarlane
President of the Family Division and Head of Family Justice

24 March 2020

https://www.judiciary.uk/announcements/coronavirus-crisis-guidance-on-compliance-with-family-court-child-arrangement-orders/

Sorry for the late response. I have been using Skype and Whatsapp to contact my daughter since I last posted. Having had some time to reflect, and with the progression of the virus over the last few days, I feel I definitely made the right decision. I imagine the 'lock down' situation is going to tighten up even more over the coming weeks, if not days.

It sucks, but if you are able to work out a contact schedule with your ex, so you know when you are speaking to your child each day/week, that will help keep things 'organised' and give your child some routine, and they can then look forward to speaking to you at a certain time each day. My ex has agreed to this, but is still to confirm times and at the moment has me calling as and when it suits her.

Have you now managed to find a laptop or device to give to your ex whilst this is happening so you can Skype with you child? If not, I would ask for at least phone calls in the meantime.