[Solved] A Cry for Help...

Ok, here’s an update, and I’m at a huge crossroads now. I had my court hearing for my eldest son, was hoping to get my weekends back (Friday afternoon through to Sunday evening). On the basis that my eldest has this fear of my partner and refuses to sleep at my house, the court refused full weekends solely due to my partner. Though we came to an agreement in the court room. Instead of 2 full weekends a month (every alternate weekend), its one Sunday daytime on one of the weekends and one weekend (Saturday and Sunday) and a night stay. But, the requirement is that my son sleeps at my mums house, and I stay there also, so we can have more one on one time. Some progress in my opinion, though can’t help but be disappointed I didn’t get my full weekends back.

The fact I can’t have my son full weekends twice a month, due to my partner, has left me fuming. Don’t get me wrong, my partner is not the reason it went to court – but my partner is the reason I can’t have him back when I’m due to. So after the hearing, I went back home. I told my partner that I don’t believe I can be with her, due to the fact her relationship with my eldest has now cost me precious time with him. To that end, I made the decision to leave and went to stay at my parents. I’d made plans to see friends for the coming few days and made plans with my eldest for this coming weekend. Probably the first time in about 2 years that I’ve made my own plans and actually done what I want to do. Actually felt quite liberating!

Fast forward a few days, she asks me round to talk. Said she’s aware she’s not had a relationship with my eldest, says she’s willing to prove to me that can be salvaged. Apologised for her behaviour, admitted she’s been a nightmare for a long time. Said she’s willing to go see a counsellor also, but wants my support, that she loves me and doesn’t want me to split up with her – wants me to stay with her and be a parent alongside her. I don’t know what to do. On the one hand, at my parents house, I’ve been enjoying the freedom to do as I wish, with no question, and feel free for the first time in 3 years. But on the other hand, if someone is willing to seek help in order to be a better person, how do I not give them that opportunity to try and be a better person?

I kinda want her to seek help and prove to me she can change over a sustained period of time, and then we will look at things, but not really sure how that would work with a child. She wants me to go back to see her in 2 days time with an answer. Says she thinks I should know already anyway… but I feel I need more time. Time to miss her at least? What to do??

Firstly I will apologize for my earlier remark "all women etc etc are ill", I have been bitten a number of times yes but that was an overstated opinion, however I disagree its a tiny minority and there are studies proving that men and women are become more unstable as society moves in a direction that the human mind can't seem to cope with and the studies to show it affects women more so. Current estimates are 3.6 million narcissists in the UK.
Onto your latest issue. This is classic Narcissism i'm afraid. A narcissist will in these situations suggest they will seek help, yes a grounded person will say the same and mean it, but a normal person wouldn't tell you to make a decision on that asap, that is a narcissist still exercising control, saying you should already know is turning you into the perpetrator and her the victim, another classic move. I'm not qualified and this is just my opinion but I am speaking from experience and what you have said so far raises so many narcissist red flags its scary. Be careful please because she could destroy your mental health. At a guess I'd say her lack of relationship with your son is because she has nothing to gain from controlling him and she can't use her emotional tools on him like she can you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xy222pgZ_o

pay attention to 2.58mins in.

good luck mate. I do feel your pain.

Interesting video! Must admit, I'd not heard of the narcissist personality until I ventured onto this forum! Quite scary and fitting though. Is there a fine line between someone being a narcissist and using the counselling line for their own calculated purposes, and someone genuine wanting to go counselling to better themselves. Will I always be asking "what if?"

That's the 64 million dollar question. I think the way to tell is educate yourself and look at the past behaviour. If they haven't shown the narcissist traits before hand then possibly you could say it's a normal person wanting to better themselves. From what you have described in your partner, after what I've been through, I'd put my money on her being a narcissist but that is just my opinion. Personally, I think ending was the right thing and you need to break all contact. Just my own personal feeling. Easy for me to sit here and write that, hard when you're in it I know matey.

It's easy to say 'don't fall for it', 'walk away' but quite another when you are the one in the situation.

Having experienced similar traits in an ex partner, you have my full sympathy. If she's agreeing to go to counselling, then maybe it's worth going? If nothing else, you might be able to use it as a process to separate if that's what you decide you want to do. You have to make your own decisions here and make sure you put yourself and the children first.

Best of luck

I would give counselling a go but only give you an idea of/confirm her deeper motives
I tired counselling with a narcissistic ex - she controlled what I could or could not say in the sessions, I could not bring up anything that showed her in a bad light, she was only happy if I was being told that I was in the wrong - as soon as the counsellor said that she had to bear some responsibility for the realtionship she stopped wanting to go

To be honest, I think that you will be better off out of the relationship; you are both locked into a cycle of behaviour that is bad for both of you and your children. Narcissists don't change unless the cycle is broken.

Thanks guys - just to elaborate re the counselling. I don't mean relationship counselling (we went before, but like you said Smudge, the second she heard that actually she was responsible for a lot of things, she stopped wanting to go). The counselling she mentioned when we spoke last night, was her to go alone, and talk about her insecurities and issues. She asked if i'd go with for support and sit in some sessions, but just to listen.

Just for some clarity here - I walked away on Friday, but went back for the talks last night, so it'd only been 3 nights away. In my mind, I wanted to be apart from her until at least Sunday (once I'd had my weekend with my eldest), I thought a week or so is a fair amount of time to be apart. But yesterday she was asking me to come back Weds night, help her with our youngest, talk some more and come to a decision. Though I do feel pressured in a way. Being at my parents only since Friday, has felt liberating. Starting to feel like my old self again already. But then I feel guilt at walking out on my youngest and unborn baby... what kind of a person does that make me, especially if there's a chance she can sort herself out. Ultimately, I'd like to see her make positive changes and prove she can turn it around, before I get back with her (if I do), but in reality, I can't see how that would ever happen.

What does that make you....Human. The narcissist wants total control of you and feeds off you. Suggesting you sit in on some sessions raises a flag again. If she is a true narcissist she will use sessions alone to turn the story around as it were until the therapist takes her side, then she will "innocently" invite you along to "listen only" so you get to listen to how bad you are and how she is the victim and then she will have more firepower to introduce the "told you so" gag.
You are in a god awful place there is no denying that I wish I could make it all better for you as I do feel your pain. My narcissist ex deliberately came off the pill and became pregnant, trapping me in a relationship that was all control, I wasn't as brave as you and hung on in there, forgetting who I was and appeasing all I could. the result was I became severely depressed and she used that to make me out as the most unsupportive horrid man and it went on and on until I finally blew and left. I'm still battling my ex because she won't let me go, I asked her parents to be the contact point for communication and handovers which they happily agreed, for one night I felt free, I finished work, drank wine and listened to music I hadn't listened too for years and felt liberated...it lasted two days until she turned her parents around and they dropped out of the arrangement, it felt like the shinning, I could feel her face coming through the door saying "here's so and so". This by the way happened recently, I've been battling this woman-child for three years and am about to go to therapy to correct her abuse. So, I do empathise with matey.
Paul Elam was a marriage councilor so some truths here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMUJ2_Zc0UQ

If you want to try and see where things may go and want to give her some chance of showing a leaf turning moment I'd advise that you go with her from her first sessions and gauge what she is saying so you can establish whether she is being open or turning things around.

There are also other illnesses that are becoming a little more to the forefront, Borderlines are also a complete headache and Histrionic people are tough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dXabMP5liQ&t=13s

This is a good one to remind you what goes on with the "not nice ones" and certainly has helped me realise a lot of issues i've faced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITolYeDyKWw&t=551s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjmpVi_5844

Some excellent reading there lister, thank you. Would you say a woman needs to be smart and calculating to portray these traits? Without sounding too disrespectful... my partner isn't that smart... so i'm wondering if she's displaying these traits but not actually aware she's even doing so. Or am I trying to defend her when she's guilty of it anyway?

I think she's of the belief that i'm gonna go back after a few days and to be fair, I'm sure she will try and put that extra effort in. It'll last weeks, maybe even months, but it will eventually come back to this.

It's weird. I don't know if I feel this free & liberated the last few days because i'm away from her, or because I feel like i'm not really in a relationship. If i'm honest, i'm worried and scared that i'll go talk to her and i'll give in and get stuck in the same rut. I have an opportunity now to get out, yet I feel so guilty because of the little one and the unborn baby.

I'm not a psychologist but a friend of mine is. These are just my thoughts in collaboration with my friends.
There are different types of narcissism, the worst I believe is the malignant narcissist, they are dangerous and calculating, generally intelligent. Intelligence in narcissism is a point I can't define. My narc ex has an oxford degree in english but possesses no common sense whatsoever, once I had established what she was it was easy to see her methods as common sense revealed holes in all her doings. I think there is basically the ones that know what they are (dangerous) and ones that act the way they do because of the narcissism within them. One thing you can never or should never do is call a narcissist out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E4CV5lqsEQ

Whether she knows she is or not, at the source is the fundamental feeling of control. Narcissists are good, excellent even at pretending to be what you want at the beginning or on "trying again", but they can never keep the act up for ever, hence why you see the pattern return.

The narcissist that can make you wonder if they are or not are the covert narcissists. If I was to guess, i'd say yours is a covert narcissist, watch below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WVLZXLyO-M

One thing you can do is say NO to a narc about something, I don't mean be horrible, if her dog is ill and she needs a lift to the vets don't say no, thats just being a d**k, but say NO to something and watch the reaction. I did that to mine and boy did the fireworks fly.

You probably feel liberated because of both mate, why can't it be because of both. You escaped being controlled and feel more like yourself and free to do things that gratify you, a basic human need and the escape from the relationship has released you from something that was clearly burdening you. So I would say you feel liberated because you are liberated.

For an explination a bit more make sure you watch Occams Razor in my earlier post. When you see what pressure is put on you as a man in a relationship it suddenly becomes clear why we feel liberated on our own. As I said I have chosen to be MGTOW (men going there own way) and am very happy now. Not to be confused with a mens rights activits although I am supportive of a lot of what they are bringing to the worlds attention.

If you feel you might get sucked back in and feel guilty about the little one and unborn one its because a) you have empathy which is good and b) because she has worked into your mind.

Be under no illusion, this will be the hardest decision of your life to date, take your time, do what YOU want and what YOU think is right. Do not be bullied into making a decision asap, if someone is not prepared to give you time and demands an answer its because she is placing her needs above yours and your older son. PM me if you wanna chat on the phone one day, again i'm not qualified and any advice is purely my own opinion. I do have a couple of friends I can consult, one is the phsychologist and the other is a magistrate judge in a family court who is also a qualified psychiatrist.

Ok, update time again :whistle:

So on Tuesday, we met up for talks. I wrote a letter as I thought I’d either forget to say something or I’d think of something to say after the fact. I had a few points which were non-negotiable for me, as did she. She agreed with all my points and agreed to what I considered non-negotiable. I did likewise with hers as I’m not perfect, and there are things I can do to better myself. I was a bit taken aback, as I wasn’t expecting her to agree, I was expecting more of a battle. She asked me to stay Tuesday night and move back in, as that was one of her non-negotiable terms… She went to her first counselling session yesterday, but didn’t seem overly happy about the outcome. She’s not said too much as yet about it.

I can see the effort she’s been putting in since Tuesday, however, one of my concerns was rushing back into it, as I felt once I was back in, the effort would stop. Yesterday, she got her nails done, quite a bright colour. Tongue in cheek, I said it would look even better with a tan. She kicked off, saying I should know how insecure she is about her looks and if I want someone tanned, then to go and be with a tanned girl. Last night, our 1 year old (who doesn’t sleep well), was up most the night. She gets stressed out and starts snapping at me, having a go at me, basically all the things I hated about her and she said she’d change. Why was I the target for her attitude? Because I didn’t get up to sort our son out (I had work in the morning, she doesn’t), and she had to keep getting up. Then this morning, she’s just had a general attitude about her, basically being the person I hated previously. Oh and tells me (not ask) that I’m on night shift duty all weekend as she needs a break (from not being able to cope with life I guess).

I get a call from her a little while ago, someone she knows has asked if she’d be interested in doing some data entry work from home, 25-30 hours a week, likely to be in evenings. She asked my opinion. I simply said, she knows how tired she is most evenings, so realistically, could you even do this? It’d be hard for you to do this during the day if you’ve got the little one. That’s my opinion, but its your decision. She started shouting down the phone practically, saying we have hardly any money to play with, and just getting aggressive. I just said that was my opinion, do what you want and put the phone down. This is exactly the [censored] I don’t want.

I feel like I’ve simply made a massive mistake trying again with her. We got back together Tuesday, its Friday and we are already arguing. I found myself looking in the mirror in the toilets at work and thinking to myself “what the f*ck have you done”. I can already feel myself getting miserable again. Just goes to show all that “I’ll change” [censored] was a lie. She can’t help herself. Which is sad as I’ve really enjoyed spending time with my son this week. I’m thinking, how can I get back with her and walk out again in the space of a week?!

She's manipulated you into returning, you gave her back control. I think you've answered your own question about what to do next... if she can't control her attitude after a couple of days of you moving back, the longer term outlook isn't good.

It would have been better to have held off on moving in, but spend time together to see how if it could work. Having that as non negotiable hasn't done you any favours. Everything should be negotiable when a relationship is struggling... she should accept that it will take time to trust again and build the relationship back up.

If you feel you've made a mistake, the sooner you do something about it the better. Leaving isn't easy, so leaving so quickly after moving back will be difficult, but we all make mistakes, especially where there are heightened emotions. If you leave again, you must be sure it's what you absolutely want.

Perhaps talk to her and tell her that you weren't ready to move back, it happened too quickly... that things are the same as they were when you left and you think that she needs to continue with counselling, even suggest couples counselling as well. She needs to accept that it's going to take time to get things back on track and it won't work whilst you are both under the same roof.

All the best