[Solved] Twisted Ramblings of a Mad Man

Hello Twiston,

I am being specific to JUDGES when I say they can see through these types of women. They still try like [censored] to get both parties to communicate but we have found them to be fair (within the system which prevails at present) . They do not appear to be "openly" interested in the conflict between the parents unless it is cause for concern regarding the child. It is all about the child !!!

Your hurt, my hurt doesn't matter one iota to them! It's all about how you portray yourself and what care you can give your child and the benefits to the child of him/her having their father in their life. It's the CHILD, the CHILD, the CHILD is all they are interested in hearing about and the part you want to play in their life. To get contact that is how you have to think and push all else to the back of your mind.

You sound as though you had an awful time at the hearing. It doesn't sound as though it was conducted in a very professional manner.
Have you considered going straight to court as in before a judge? I'm no help here as I'm not knowledgeable about the forms and the various hearings.

When dealing with anyone to do with your child especially the mother and Cafcass, put your professional hat on, be a man of few words polite and civil, control your emotions then you cannot be "got at." It is a difficult thing to have to tolerate injustice but to get anywhere I believe that temporarily this is what we have to do in these circumstances. Then, come on this site and release your emotions and all that you feel with people who understand.

Hello Twiston,

I am being specific to JUDGES when I say they can see through these types of women. They still try like [censored] to get both parties to communicate but we have found them to be fair (within the system which prevails at present) . They do not appear to be "openly" interested in the conflict between the parents unless it is cause for concern regarding the child. It is all about the child !!!

Your hurt, my hurt doesn't matter one iota to them! It's all about how you portray yourself and what care you can give your child and the benefits to the child of him/her having their father in their life. It's the CHILD, the CHILD, the CHILD is all they are interested in hearing about and the part you want to play in their life. To get contact that is how you have to think and push all else to the back of your mind.

You sound as though you had an awful time at the hearing. It doesn't sound as though it was conducted in a very professional manner.
Have you considered going straight to court as in before a judge? I'm no help here as I'm not knowledgeable about the forms and the various hearings.

When dealing with anyone to do with your child especially the mother and Cafcass, put your professional hat on, be a man of few words polite and civil, control your emotions then you cannot be "got at." It is a difficult thing to have to tolerate injustice but to get anywhere I believe that temporarily this is what we have to do in these circumstances. Then, come on this site and release your emotions and all that you feel with people who understand.

I applied to court, this was the result of a C100, and maybe you misunderstand, I didnt say any of the above, coming on jere with my emotions was exactly what I did, I was calm and collected throughout, it started with "this is ridiculous" by her solicitor and never ended, child was barely mentioned tbh apart from what said above, it was all about how awful I was to the ex. I barely responded and yet was more than 'got at'. These werent reflecitons on me in the room but how my ex interpreted me and her solicitor had the loudest voice to the cafcass and legal advisor she knew being the CP lead solicitor.....

Hello Twiston,

I've just written you a message, referred to another page, turned back again and lost the damned thing.

Hello Twiston,

I fully understood your message and that you presented yourself in a most acceptable manner.

In my message I was conveying what I personally had discovered which helps the progression of contact and also making the point that our experience was before a judge which has left me wondering if there is a big difference. I have never known anyone in this situation before and never had any personal involvement until these last few months. I am totally "green" to all this and it took a while for it all to sink in, how the system works. I found false accusation is a terrible thing to endure when you're not given the opportunity to defend yourself which, it would appear, you're not..

As for being "got at" yes of course you can be "got at," These women have a go for no good reason whenever they feel like it. I was meaning never put yourself in a vulnerable position where you do not have proof to refute an allegation levelled at you. If you communicate via emails, meet where there is a good CCTV system, you then have evidence on your side.

Your hearing sounds as though it was absolutely dreadful, this is what prompted me to write as our experience was before a judge and very different from yours.

Ok, I have no structure or idea to speak of to why Im writing this.

Firstly, Ill answer above, I have evidence, it didnt matter, what mattered is that women naturally believe women. He hots me, did he? she hits me, nah I cant see that, was it just a slap?

Im still sort of seething from my experience in 'court', in the 'justice' system.

The idea that lies were simply believed has me angry and largely wounded. I was presented as a guy that is just unreasonable, shes the primary carer dont you know. It was accepted that I had made an application as I was insecure, for no good reason other than being emotionally unstable. It was almost dismissed that the reason for such insecurity was the marginalisation and disproportionate use of power. In fact it was suggested that this was just in my head. I have a recording of a very pleasant me returning from a contact that was followed up with a text claiming Im being erratic - I wasnt even in the same county when received.

She claimed to be intimidated by me, then the CAFCASS lady suggested it didnt matter if it was intended, all that mattered was that she felt it. The double standard.

There was a message an order cant give me security (as its in my head) and they're going for a no order principle.

I was told my current contact is "enough for his age", then was told I couldnt have a progression plan as they couldnt tell when he would be ready "because of his age". Essentially I have to trust this paragon of virtue that is his mother. babies develop rapidly and things might change she says

They all rejoiced in how nice the mediator she suggested was, yes all of the court room! No attention paid to the fact that the one I picked (out of the phone book) was in the local area to her work, yet her solicitor and the court were too, they seemed to now each other through work, but Im supposed to accept the utmost confidence in justice and professional conduct (but not at the original mediators).

I was told that it was concerning such a young child had been brought to court BY ME (note not the situation, BY ME) and I should be enjoying him - Id really like to dear cafcass lady if I can see him and it not be determined by how pleased his mother is with my current 'behaviour'. That he is only 16 weeks (her solicitor jumped all over this).I said he is 21 weeks, she said "its only a few weeks" so apparently his weaning, finger grasp and head movements arent included in her "they develop rapidly".

the legal advisor suggested frequent and short contacts are standard at this age (again at this age a decision...) but as his mother preferred less but longer as its easier to prepare food, this was kept...well within the adjournment period.

I was told I was kept informed of all his appointments and pertinent information - this didnt include the weight of the baby though.

I was called a liar, flat out, by her solicitor that I knew about another holiday, the solicitor then asked for my permission, the legal advisor added "there should be no problem with her going away" (Id been ignored that a week turned into 3 last time)....so I said OK but when is it, answer, they didnt have dates yet but they'll get back to me.....but I knew. I was accused of threatening arrest and abduction and how? because I sent her the link to the government website.

Ive come to the conclusion now that the only way I can survive this is to detach slightly. I of course dont want to do this, but how do I get through each day desperately missing my son and wondering how he is? Surely its only natural to distance yourself slightly and accept you cannot influence his life until he is older in the very least. Its clear the legal advisor (who added to his mum that she should start looking for nursery places soon) but that we should look together - outside and day after, shes already done it, the LEGAL ADVISOR will dismiss this and his mum is publicly saying "come to injections" then when there its "dont [censored] talk to me" - Im the intimidator.

I realise sometimes that there are people on here in much worse circumstances, yet when doing counselling and learning about empathy responses we get told to weed out all "it could be worse" statements as it completely devalues someones feelings. Im torn, because I know it could be worse, I DO see him, but Im also someone that works with children and wants to influence development of my son.

tonight I dropped him off, and she was nice as pie, Ive learnt now not to respond per se in such circumstances and be suspicious and to not agree to anything, MrSlim brought that to the forefront about agreeing to stuff before thinking it through. Especially as any backtrack is not a change of mind for me but abusive to mum.

Anyway, the nicety progressed to telling me that despite 4 nursery choices she only has one in mind and the court have said we need to compromise.....and that if we dont agree theyll agree it for us...

When we were there talk was on when returned to work and who would have him, I was told Id be having one day per week when shes at work and her mum other 2, no-one asked if Id been consulted, then it increases to 4 days per week. Then the LA said well why should you get more time than mum if shes back at work - I was astounded. Then came the crux of tonight, Son's mother stated that afer 6 months she will have to return full-time and that will mean I see him 2 days a week and she'll only get 1 at the weekend. So we'll have to "come to an arrangement" - this is now said with the court will support me anyway, such a narcissist feed.

Anyway, I was told I couldnt see him in the evenings - no matter how early I could get there the bedtime routine starts earlier - but shes not lying of course. Anyway so I begged, borrowed and stealed to get a day off work, I condense a full weeks work into 4 days, Im up at 6am and get back after 7pm and have to see the same amount of contacts per week. I work my [censored] off to be able to see him on this day (when she allows it) and now Im going to be expected by her and court (because we can plan ahead for her) to maintain this so that she can have the same amount of time outside of work? Is this right? Will they see this as fair? She's choosing to go back full time as she has a lifestyle she likes to lead, I can reduce mine and live a cheaper one, work my [censored] off to see him on that one day, i can provide childcare and this will be seen as my contact because shes back at work? has the world gone crazy? I pay maintainence too at the CMS rate, roughly 4000 a year.

Of course if I say well Im going back to work normal hours Ill be unreasonable and controlling, but seriously why should I do 12-13 hour days to fit her lifestyle? I do it for my son, not for her, Im knackered ALL the time but I do it for him! Im not continuing to fight work and push appointments for 5 days into 4 to suit someone other than my son. Am I being unreasonable? We all know it wont be 2 one week and 1 the next for us both, nor will I be commended for helping mum by court, shes mum so she'll get the bulk Ill get the day I work my [censored] off for and probably 2 weekend days a month (at best - rem he's young he'll be 14 months by this time though). Is it my problem? Is this another way of pushing me out? It wasnt her problem that she can have maternity, reduce hours etc for childcare.

Whats the crux here, what will they give? because theres no way Im running myself into the ground for the same contact Id get at weekend. I endure, for him.

I get annoyed at how th system doesnt represent what would happen should you have not left, is it sweden promoting such?

I left my abusive ex, I didnt leave my son ffs

hello to everyone,

I have an update thats also seeking advice. I was apprehensive about posting as my FB history was brought into court even though not friends....

After using a MF and having the experience as laid out above I employed a barrister by further debt and things seem to change, rapidly. Whatsmore my other thread regarding reduction in contact for work, the barrister said (not that they have the authority) but said 'no that wont happen'.

I had a hearing after the first attack and was informed I was merely dragging things out as they werent challenging anything, the barrister asked soliciotr to go away and seek direction from her client, nothing after 30 mins just sat staring.

A hearing in front of magistrates and legal advisor more stupid comments such as I put an application in day after birth which was easily disproved, barrister essentially questioned everything said in the same way I would have but without being viewed badly as I would have. ie 'thats ridiculous'.

So we went to judge led mediation and the difference was STARK, not sure on use of barrister here apart from write up as they cant talk for you (which her solicitor seemed to know mine didnt as this method is a pilot I think so you get a judge saying what theyd grant if in front of them), essentially you sit in front of a district judge, they lied again about agreements already made, that they had completed a parenting plan, I rejected, other way around. Then a 3 page 'statement' came out where the ex turned on the water works and basically accused me of abusing her including violently for the length of our relationship and whatsmore that she didnt want to tell anyone but feels this is the right time.....(at the DJ hearing) and that she informed CAFCASS I had abused and been violent but had asked them not to disclose. That I didnt share any information about baby etc which again was just easily disproved in her communication book. I do handover on her doorstep alone. Barrister said I handled it well in that I simply didnt react. She stated that I 'force' her to update me ASAP about docs appoints - DJ, well yes you should.

The DJ quickly moved past almost sidestepping everything said bar communicating needs (which is done) her solicitor had said about overnights being agreed (they never ever were as the first hearing put it all in their court), then they tried to say monthly at first, the DJ just said no, weekly building up and when I suggested what days I could ex shouted out "youve already got one a week and now you want more??" I was tempted to react and say the baby isnt a bicycle Im lending and that the using her mum for childminding was fine if shes at work but if Im off work I can have that option, ex said shes always been flexible about that (she hadnt and I have it in writing) DJ said ok so its agreed then, ex tried to say whenever I get more I try to keep or take it, DJ its annual leave, it runs out. It felt like a complete about face to the first hearing it was taken by her as in MY favour but it clearly wasnt it was just reasonable progression of contact. I do feel the ex has now wished she'd not allowed full days (she claimed she couldnt provide milk for short frequent trips and long days were easier) which has now meant that DJ say this as meaning child is fine with me (of course).

Anyway,

I have agreed at 6 months old for shared care

2 full 8 hour days per week with option of using leave.

I have agreed at 8 months

1 full 8 hour day plus 1 overnight per WEEK starting from late afternoon and gradually increasing an hour per week and leave thing.

I have agreed from 9.5 months

1 full day midweek (I have a day off work) and 1 overnight fri or sat 6pm-6pm and leave thing - DJ said 'dad should be able to take out for the day if hes off work and then looked at me and said it would be better if this was done when baby with her mother rather than her' - this message although probably ignored was stark for me in that it was supposed to tell her I supersede her mother.

The thing is this is NOT an order, all the court have ordered is the SPIP but this is a "recording" with the provision the DJ thinks with this agreement we shouldnt have an order but has thanks to barrister left a court date for december (after overnights have grown to full whack) for a contested hearing - although has ordered that this can be retracted (Im guessing by me as mum was requiring no order and is the respondent) with a letter a week or two before.

I believe this is a 'good' result and going before lay magistrates and the same mumsnet legal advisor may be detrimental, plus Ive got what I wanted truth be told.

I was wondering where I stood if she suddenly started playing up with contact again (she has clear history) with only having a recording I cannot enforce but if I reapply does the recording look 'good' for me?? Since then Im already being told we need to discuss routine as that was the only thing DJ said I should follow her routine - I do!!

plus with the false allegations of abuse am I better rearranging handovers for public place? the barrister says no but I feel they werent really listening, I work with the victims of abuse and such allegations are career threatening - theres no evidence etc, I was at all scans but now shes claiming she was afraid of not letting me....Im afraid of false allegations escalating especially as she feels shes 'lost' she clearly has no threshold to not cross. You see stories and power differentials all over here and Im left both scared, relieved and anxious. I dont feel any better!! I feel somewhat worse like I still cant enjoy child fully with questions flooding in. Its slanderous to be fair and Im seriously concerned.

Hi there

What a turn around from the last hearing! I can understand your trepidation, but I hope this will fade as you get on with the job of parenting your little one.

In light of the allegations I think it would be a good idea to cover yourself during handover and drop off. That it has been left open until December is a good thing, if she plays up or breaches the agreement then you can write to the judge directly and ask for urgent new directions.

If she plays ball and contact goes without any problems then you would write to the court to withdraw from proceedings as the DJ directed. However if she makes things difficult you have the option of recording everything and returning to court in December, or as I mentioned above, writing to the judge personally and asking for it to be returned to court for urgent new directions, outlining in your letter why you are making the request.

Let's hope this last experience has shown her that she cannot have everything her own way anymore and it's better to work with you than create more problems. If she does play up then you can write to her to remind her of the agreement that she made in court and let her know that you would have no hesitation in requesting an early return to court....that might do the trick.

Hello Twiston,
I'm pleased you were able to go before a District Judge. As mentioned in my previous posts to you, I am of the firm belief when faced with this type of Ex that a judge is more expedient in dealing with this type of situation rather than others. I also believe the presence of a barrister is influential. Sad to say and it probably shouldn't be but I think it is.

Regarding handovers when dealing with a hostile Ex, I believe, should be in a public place where there is hopefully good CCTV.

After what you have been through you will not feel well straight away. You have had a long period of continued stress. Once you get into a routine with your little one, I'm sure you will then begin to feel a lot better.

Please note, I am not offering advice but merely expressing my personal opinion.

This is fantastic news, well done 🙂

At least thinks are heading in the right direction this is only the start it sort of feels like an anti climax at first but it becomes more real once you start building your relationship with your child.

Put thinking about what she will or won't do in the future to one side as it will send you round the twist (pardon the pun) lol.

You've got a good solid basis of progressive contact here so just stick with it and ignore what ever comes out your ex's mouth the courts will frown up on her if she starts messing with contact mine didn't like it at all, you may find she even calms down a little now she knows the games up.

Do exactly what MOJO has suggested if she doesnt play ball I did and she was straight back n court for a slap on the wrist.

Good luck with it all man.

Slim 🙂

You just how to compare the result you've got today with the title of this thread - what a fantastic turnaround. Well done 🙂

thanks all, Slim and Mojo,

the thing is this is NOT an order, there is no wrist slaps