[Solved] Would a contact order make this any better?

Hi Jethro,

At least its good that some Contact has been arranged or reached.

I'm not sure if i read this right, but are you saying that in this Solicitors agreement: Your Son must notify his ex-wife if he is taking his Daughter out of his postcode i.e. out of the area?

At the end of the day regarding the family issue and them being a considerable distance away, his ex-wife and moreso her Solicitor must realise that their Daughter should have an opportunity to see the paternal family. It helps the child, and is a positive factor.

To your question: If the matter were brought to Court, he would have to explain what it is exactly he is wanting to have i.e. Contact schedule, plus extra's i.e. Holidays and also occasions.

Also if it were me i would not sign the agreement until it has been amended that taking his Daughter to see her family is an expectation.

Well he's trying to keep things amicable, and he is prepared to mostly do what is asked, but the question of how far he can reasonably expect to take her is a sticking point.
For instance, he has been told he can't take her on a family holiday abroad later in the year. Surely, he must be allowed to take her on holiday, even if it is only to visit his family?
Is it usual when arranging contact to arrange things like this, and what happens on holidays and public holidays etc? He instigated the solicitors letters when they first split up and he wasn't seeing her at all, now that things have relaxed a bit and he has some contact, he was going to stick with trying to sort things out himself. He really can't afford the solicitors fees, he is trying to keep the marital home going on his own, and has taken on the majority of the debts.
i don't think he has actually signed the agreement regarding post codes yet.

Hi Jethro 🙂

I think the precedent has been set. Having allowed weekly overnight contact his ex has acknowledged your sons competency. In a Contact Order issued by the court, the resident parent isnt given the option of dictating postcode restrictions as far as I know. The court is only concerned with what is in the best interests of the child, and that is most definately being allowed to get to know and form close, loving relationships with all of their family, on both sides!

When going for a Contact Order its best to be as comprehensive as possible and include things like arrangements for summer holidays, Easter, Christmas and birthdays. Something like one week this year, increasing to two the following year and therafter. Easter, Christmas and birthdays being shared alternately. It would also be feasible to ask for a planned increase in the number of nights over the weekend too, as she gets older. This shows that thought has been given to how young she is at the moment, and addresses the concerns of her motherabout her being "too young".

Its always advisable to try and keep things amicable. Has your son considered Mediation. The courts would expect this to have been explored fully before asking for their intervention anyway. Heres a link ~ www.nfm.org.uk.

There are many Dads here that have chosen to represent themselves in court....Yoji has written two very informative stickys that you can find at the top of the Legal Eagle section. The first is called " Contact Order C100 Guide". This is all about the form that needs to be filled in and submitted to the court to apply for contact, there is a fee of £200 for this. The second is called "A Guide to Representing Yourself in Court" and is a useful guide to the court process.

Good luck with everything 🙂

Thanks, he has been trying to avoid costing us money for a solicitor as he barely has enough to keep himself, let alone pay for legal fees. Any finance for that would need to come from the Bank of Mum and Dad!!!!!

Since his legal aid was refused, he has tried to keep to casual arrangements with his wife, but we are concerned that if nothing formal is in place, if things are not always so amicable between them, he will need to have something more formal in place.

As for mediation, he has already asked her to go to counselling ( which I know is different to mediation) and mediation, but she says as the fault was his , she doesn't see why she should go. If this is necessary if it does go to Court, how will this work if she will not attend?

...She will be ordered to attend and the court will take a very dim view if she refuses! They will see it as obstructive and not in the best interests of the child, she would probably lose a lot of ground....her solicitor would most definately advise her to attend or face consequences.

Mediation is not about whos fault it is or whos to blame, and as far as the courts are concerned a breakdown of a relationship is a seperate issue and shouldnt be confused with whats best for a child. Perhaps if your son makes her aware of how seriously he takes his role as a parent and that he will do whatever it takes to make sure that his relationship with his child is allowed to continue, not for his sake but more importantly for the well being of his child. This is the stance that the court will take as they consider that both parents involvement is what is best.

I tend to agree with you about having a more defined Contact Order issued through the court. I think it gives that added security, and then contact isnt governed by the mood swings of the resident parent. Even with a Contact Order there can still be upsets but at least there is the redress of going back to court for enforcement.

My son was also refused legal aid but we couldn't understand why as he is an apprentice and only earning £120 per week. They then looked at the figures again and because we loaned him the money for a car to get to work, they are taking that as money in hand, so he has to pay £44 a month towards his legal costs. Stupid as by the time he has put petrol into the car, put money aside to pay child maintenance when she will hive him her bank account, he doesn't have an awful lot left, so we are having to pay his legal costs for him. Wish the people that decided what has to be paid actually took a proper look at what people are getting before they decide.

I wish you luck.

Hi

Thanks for the advice, now to try and persuade him that going the legal route is the best way to go. I don't think he will listen to me though, while things are ticking along fine at the moment, he can't see the need for it that we can.

The legal aid situation changed when they had to add back his pension contribution because it isn't a compulsory payment. He's had to stop paying that now anyway because he can't afford his mortgage.

Just a quick update on the advice you've all been kind enough to contribute, and a request for further help.

My son is till trying to avoid going for a contact order, as he's hoping that he might be able to salvage his marriage, though I think he is beginning to realise this probably will not happen, which is her choice and not his. He is still getting regular weekend contact with his daughter, but he still has a sticking point in that his wife will not allow him to bring the child to Essex, stating that she is too young to be so far away from her mother. She has said maybe next year, but we can't see that her reasoning will make any difference as it seems to be the distance rather than my sons ability to look afer his daughter. She will be two in a few weeks.
His wife still insists that as primary carer, she has the final say in where he is allowed to take her. Since they don't have an arrangement for holidays in place at the moment, I am wondering if she is within her rights to dictate where he takes her? He is quite upset because she is planning a family holiday with her family in Devon, but will not allow a visit to us. I am assuming that if he had the normal week or so's holiday agreement, she could not have a veto on where he takes her. She has threatened to call the police and report him for kidnapping if he takes her without her permission, though as she knows this is contentious I think she will only allow the day and a half weekend contact she allows at the moment ( 10am Saturday, to 12 midday Sunday) She knows there is no way he can get to Essex and back in that time.

The solicitor who started the intitial contact arrangements needs to know if he wants to close the case, or continue. I know that the legal aid for Family Law has been stopped except where there is violence, and I am wondering if this is retrospective? Obviously, they didn't get as far as any formal arrangements, and his solicitor seemed pretty much to just pass on what the wifes solicitor, sent without any advice to him regarding his own rights or what he should agree to. As they haven't actually started any formal court process, will her legal aid continue now as it had already been agreed?

I really don't want my son to be in the position of reresenting himself (if I can persuade him to go for mediation and a formal contact order if they don't decide to try again) if she has a legally trained representative.

I know your previous advice has been that courts actively encourage the child to have contact with both sides of the family, but she says she isn't preventing this because we can visit her at my sons. Unfortunately, as he has a one bedroom flat, we have to pay petrol and a hotel ( £250+), so we don't see her as often as we'd like.

Just looking for confirmation that my thoughts are along the right lines really.

Hi Jethro.

I split with my ex nearly 7 years ago. Whilst we have got on for quite a lot of the time since, we have had some very rough times. If i don't jump when my ex says jump then i get told that i wont be seeing my daughter! (also threats to ring the police for kidnap) Friends and family over the years have urged me to get a contact order in place but i never did as i didn't want to make things worse with my ex as we would usually sort things out. Things have really come to a head in the last year and i only wish that i had found this website earlier and got the order as it would have saved me and my family a lot of heartache (and me a lot of money).
In my opinion you need to talk your son into getting the order.
T

Another update, though really its the same question!!!

I suppose we should be grateful that my sons wife has never tried to stop him from seeing his daughter, although she has restricted what he can do and where he can take her.

Still no luck with getting him to put things on a formal basis, but I did want to know what the point is in paying for a solicitor to make an agreement that wouldn't be legally binding, and if abandoned would eventually result in paying to get a court agreed contact order anyway. I think after almost a year, he has finally come to the conclusion that there won't be a reconciliation.

He's still having his daughter from Saturday morning to Sunday lunchtime every week. He's struggling as he is either at work or looking after his daughter, and his suggestion that he has Friday evening to Sunday night every other weekend was met with a refusal because it doesn't fit in with her working Saturday evenings. His response that he wasn't a babysitter ( though to be honest, that's what he feels like!) was met with the response that she didn't have to make allowances for his social life.

He decided then that he'd ask for one weekend a month to himself, and have his daughter for longer on other weekends to make up for it. It is true that he plays a sport that means its difficult when he has his daughter, and this is partly the reason he wants some time to himself. Usually, if he asks for something that isn't agreeable to his wife, she throws the fact that she is primary carer in his face and she can do as she wants.

He doesn't want to be the sort of dad that phones up and says he can't see her this weekend, and I'm not sure how this could be sorted, but any ideas would be appreciated. If we didn't live so far away, it wouldn't be a problem, because we'd obviously look after her, but he hasn't got anyone who can do that.

Any ideas anyone?

Put simply, I'm afraid his choices are, try to negotiate (possibly through mediation), go to court for a defined contact order, or stick with the current arrangement. Ideally, court is the last resort only, and agreement/mediation is the best if he can get it.

Thanks, I have suggested he try and persuade her to go to mediation, but I guess really I'm asking if he is being unreasonable. His wife accuses him of not putting his daughter first, but as he says, if he didn't he would have come home a year ago ( he lives in Lancashire and we and all his family live in Essex) and not struggle on coping with all the debt and living on his own with no family back up.

Hi there 🙂

I really don't think he is being unreasonable, the reasoning behind the courts awarding weekend contact every alternate weekend has a lot to do with allowing both parents quality time with their children whilst allowing them to have quality time for themselves too.

It might be better if your son went to the initial assessment meeting with the Mediation service and then allowed the mediator to write to his ex and ask her to attend. Where she has no problem saying no to your son, she may react differently when a third party does the asking. 😉

If she refuses hen your son will be issued with the FM1 certificate to submit to the court should the need arise to ask the court to intervene..

Best of luck 🙂