Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:
Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.
Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.
If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help
Hello everyone I wish you all a positive and healthy new year,
I have a final hearing for a child arrangement order, without any safeguarding issues and fairly narrowed issues, nothing deeply serious but there are issues..
I have some questions if somebody could add their input please, I will keep it brief.
I have a final hearing in 2 months. I have been asked to file a witness statement which I am preparing. It is proving quite daunting to be honest and overwhelming. So many things to say, so many facts that you wish to set straight, I did not expect to be overwhelmed as I have.
First question: Do you need to put absolutely everything in a witness statement? What I mean is everything from a complete background to reasons for marriage breakdown, all your own concerns and also of course the positives on why you are applying for such and such an arrangement? I have spent a few hours on mine and I am already on something like 10 pages and I feel like I haven't even put down 5% of what I wish to say and I think about. What are people's view on this is this normal? Can a statement be like 100 pages for instance or is it getting carried away? Obviously its like asking how long is a piece of string, but what I am trying to ascertain is how in depth do you need to go and do you need to raise all issues? Or try to focus more on the positives and moving forward?
Second question: Once statements have been exchanged with the other party are you then able to prepare a response to the other party's points? Do you file this before the hearing or on the day?
Third question: Are you always given the opportunity to cross-examine the other party in a final hearing? I ask because the directions for this hearing do not state 'oral submissions' but only direct that we submit 'written statement'. Will I be able to cross-examine any points, inaccuracies or lies on the day?
Thank you in advance for your replies, much appreciated.
Hi there
No you really don't need to put absolutely everything in your statement, it needs to contain a brief background, with some detail about the issues and your concerns and what you would like to achieve.
As you say that there are no safeguarding risks and fairly narrowed issues, with nothing deeply serious, even more reason to keep your statement concise and to the point. A good statement that flows well and is within 12 pages at most (ideally 5-7) will be read and taken in by the judge, but a rambling, long winded statement will lose their interest and won't be as easily recalled. Focus mainly on the current situation and moving forward, keeping your child central to it.
It usually takes me about 3/4 rough drafts, each time reducing and condensing, until I'm happy with it ... It takes time and effort, but a good statement can make the difference.
Generally, unless a response is specified in the interim order, then there isn't provision to file a response, it's possible to prepare a brief position statement to take with you to the hearing, to tell the court of any new developments, but you would usually bring up any response you have to the other parties statement at the hearing, you can make notes to refer to what you want to say.
If it's listed as a final contested hearing, you should prepare a closing submission to read out (like a final plea) and potentially some cross examination questions to ask the other party.
Thanks for you replies Mojo.
There have been two previous hearings., In neither did I raise or had the opportunity to raise the issues which are of concern to me. of real concern, and whilst they are not deeply serious (abuse, drugs etc..) there are concerns..
So thats why this is my first and only opportunity to put these forward. There are a few and of equal 'stature' or importance to me which as a whole become even more important.
but if I should focus on where we are and moving forward, which makes absolute sense by the way, it almost becomes a case whereby I must either ignore most of them as one is not more important than the other? Am i making sense?
I am applying for a shared care arrangement and it is absolutely in my child's best interests that that kind of arrangement is made yet the mother wants the once a fortnight setup..
So in order to convice the court I must put my thoughts, ie concerns to them, do you see the problem? However much I wish I didnt have to sit typing, stressing, and reliving all the issues in preparing this statement.
It does not help the judge who heard the previous two hearings will not be the one hearing the fnal hearing! Or maybe it does...[censored] it.. maybe i need to go to bed, been at it 7 hours straight.
Can I ask you, how long would oyu allow yourself start to finish permitting for 2-3 drafts?
Thanks again mate and sorry for the typos..
I guess the question becomes, how would the new judge, who has not heard the case before, be brought up to date of the case, the history and issues if its not all included in the witness statement?
Just wanted to second everything that Mojo wrote, it's good advise.
When I had my first go at a statement, it was a massive rambling about everything that I felt I had been wronged on. It was actually quite therapeutic to write, but would have made a terrible terrible statement to give to court. Going through it over multiple iterations helped improve it, and having someone help write it helped even more. I would strongly recommend that you get an impartial clear mind to help you with writing the statement, it's very difficult to be able to focus on what matters when your own emotions are justifiably all over the place over what's just happened to you, and that lack of clarity will hurt your case in court.
Also, if you want a shared care arrangement ( do you mean equal care 50/50 ? ), you need to focus on the benefits for the child and the conditions you have in place to make that a success, not on some concern about the mother's inability which is more likely to come across as bitterness and be painted by the other side as not focusing on the child's needs. I'm sorry it's that difficult, shared care should be the default option, and the fact men have to go through this is a joke, but that's unfortunately the reality and best face it and make the best of it.
I guess the question becomes, how would the new judge, who has not heard the case before, be brought up to date of the case, the history and issues if its not all included in the witness statement?
Judges don't like to spend too much time on the past, its historic if it's over 3months old sometimes! Where there are serious safeguarding issues it's a different matter, but that doesn't apply to your case. I'm assuming there were some reports done, the judge will read through all of the paperwork and your statements before sitting.
If you dwell in the past and spend pages going over the other parties failings the court might consider that shared care wouldn't work, because of the bad feeling existing between you. Shared care does entail having to work together to a degree and to demonstrate flexibility, which is important with close co parenting.
I would also suggest you work on a proposed schedule, to show how sharing care would work for the child, the things that you do for your child, for instance, do you have a good relationship with school/nursery, do you do a lot of the school/nursery runs? Does your work allow for you to be able to pick up your share of childcare duties, was shared parenting the main element when you were a couple?
I've sent you a message.
Agree with all that has been written above. I have often seen statements cast aside during a hearing when a judge has labelled them rambling or irrelevant. If there were serious safeguarding concerns then, yes, you would need to focus on those. If they are fairly minor, as has been said above, focus on letting the court know how your child would benefit from such an arrangement & how you can make this happen for your child.
Take a look at the Welfare Checklist - those are the points a court considers when making decisions.
All you say feels absolutely right fellas thank you.
I am far form being in that bitter frame of mind where I just want to air issues for the sake of it. I am just scared of letting my child down by not raising some issues, regardless of how tired I am of all this nonsense and courts and past false allegations and wish to simply raise my child..
It is basically about choosing a strategy. Your words all make absolute sense.
I am not applying for 50/50 equal though I would be happy with that and it is entirely practical, we live under 2 miles from each other, equal distance to school, my son is perfectly happy,, confident and relaxed here with me just as he is with his mum. He never asks for her or becomes worried or anything like that whatsoever (he is under 5).
My work allows total flexibility and can pick him up and drop him off.
The mother has made false allegations but the court swiftly didnt pay attention and moved forward and 2 years later we are where we are.
I really cant shake this feeling that by being overly 'nice' or diplomatic again as in the other two hearings, I will have let him down if I do not raise issues at this final hearing. Because it is her behaviour and mindset which trouble me..
Thinking out loud again... I guess I am actually leaning more to what you suggest..ie away from what has happened.
Because in the end, even if you have convinced the court that ok, her behaviour can be troubling or not ideal...again whether shared care would be ordered is more about practicality and a minimum level of collaboration etc which does apply in our case...
yeah..thinking about it all..
Welcome to the DAD.info forum.
We don’t like to set ‘rules’, but to make sure that you and the other dads are kept safe, we have some requests. When engaging with the forum, please be aware of the following:
- The forum is not moderated 24 hours per day.
- Many of the moderators do so on a voluntary basis. Whilst they may be able to provide some guidance, advice or support, they may not be able to deal with specifics.
- We are not an emergency crisis service so if you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call emergency services.
- If you are concerned about the safety of a child, please click here to find the support you can get for them (link to new page)
- If you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123. They are open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.
We hope you find this forum a supportive environment and thank you for joining us.