[Solved] want to represent self in contact order HELP

Hi Dad123

It's perfectly possible to represent yourself, and if I were in your position, I would certainly be looking at doing what you are considering.

You will need to try mediation at first, but if that fails or your ex won't attend, then you need to apply to court for a contact order. Have a read of the reply to pinklynz's post today, there's some good advice in there, but also this link:
<!-- l 27/1992/9384/c100/viewtopic-php#p9384<!-- l
will take you to one of the Children's Legal Centre's replies giving advice on how to proceed.

Hi,

thanks for response
so it can take 6-12 months for a decsion?-looking at the other post.

I have not gone for medation and looked into it alot, reasons for this are that
-I have been seperated from my ex for 5 years and still continues ue my son as a weapon towards me.
-the contact will not be court ordered so she will be able to manipulate it as much as she likes- as she has done in the past on numerous occasions.
-The contact I have with my son has been the same for the past 3 years and for the 5 years we have been apart I have always had him 3 nightsa week.

Does anyone know what the likely hood of my request being agreeded in court? As the worst thing that could happen to both me and my son is I would see him less. Ideally I would like full care of him but see this as impossible to get..

thanks

Hi
It's not impossible to get residency (I did it) but the court would have to have a very good reason to remove your son from your ex when he's settled there. The courts do expect you to have tried mediation so it won't be favourable to you if you haven't - I believe you can get the agreement made into a consent order - have a word with the CLC for more advice on this though.

Sorry, missed the last but - in my opinion, because you have had very good contact over the past few years, I would think a court would have a good reason to order that this continue.

Thanks this is re assuring....but I have just found out she will be now only be working 3 days a week not 5. Apparently to "spend more time with our son"! Will this not go in my favour? I no she has done this as she is better off with benifit top up then working full time...and of course if my contact is reduced she will get alot more csa money from me.

If she cuts her work down, it won't go against her, arguing that she's doing it for increased benefits isn't something I'd bring up.

With regards to maintenance, are you currently paying a reduced amount because your son is staying with you more than 52 days per year?

I wouldnt call it reduced..the amount I pay. But I have hime in the 155-176 threshold. She wants me to have him 104 nights a year...which works out about an extra £50 a month. I wasnt going to bring the benifits up in court. But do belive her cutting down my contact is to do with my maintance being increased.

As she has previoulsy been happy for me to have my son on extra days includidng TWO 2 week periods throughout the year...which I used my anual leave for, so she could go abroad and a recover from a minor op. -would also like to point out she did not contact him once in both these two weeks, (not a phone call)

Im really worried that the courts will say she is now able to spend more time with him so is better for him to do this.

One more thing....she is starting a court procedding to see her other son who she has not seen for 8 years!!.....doubt this would be relevant in my case no?

I agree with ACTD and think you should at least attempt mediation. The court will actually expect you to have made some attempt to resolve matters with your ex.

Write to your ex, suggest that you both attend mediation and point out that your only real alternative will be court action. Give her 14 days to respond in writing and if she declines mediation you can submit your application to the court. This has the added benefit of illustrating that you've tried to be as reasonable as can be expected in difficult circumstances.

ACTD also makes a great point about the contact you've had over the years; the court is unlikely to reduce your level of contact and would expect your ex to continue this arrangement. It's difficult to obtain full residency, unless your child is at some kind of physical or emotional risk. I would say that you've got a good argument for shared residency, as this has actually, more or less, been the arrangement for a number of years.

It sounds to me like you're a good dad who genuinely wants to remain a positive presence in his son's life. That's the only thing you need to demonstrate to the court. The benefit stuff isn't particularly relevant and it could be made to look like you're arguing over money, rather than contact.

I'm not sure how relevant, or useful, her other case would be. I assume it would really depend on why she hasn't had any contact with this other child in 8 years?

I forgot to mention that you can actually ask for a mediation agreement to be written into a court order, which means that in the event that your ex goes back on what has been agreed you can go back to the court and have the order enforced!

HI,

Just a quick message to say....I went for the 1st hearing this week and I had an excellent result! After meeting the cafcass worker in court and having a discussion on my own and with my ex, it was decided infront of the judge that my contact under no circumstances should be reduced!!! She was told it is fundemental for my son to spend time with me and this should not be reduced! I have now also been asked to call my son when he is with his mother and send him a letter once month! I am over the moon with the result 😀

I understand it is not a court order but if she does not keep to our verbal agreement I can write to the court and they will re open the case...
Cafcass still want to do their safeguarding checks which is fine and they even said to me have I thought of full custody.

Thanks for the support! 😀

yeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 😀 D D

it's results like this that make this forum so worthwhile. keep coming on here, other dads need to know that there can be happy outcomes from dads who have been through it. well done, I'm really, really pleased for you.

Ok,
So I am back!

It has not even been a month since we went to court and mother of my son is allready causing problems. It was agreeded with Cafcas worker I am to phone my son when he is in his mothers care and she now does not answer! -But has the time to text me criticising my parenting and where abouts when my son stays with me. she has told me she wont be answering and to take her back to court grrrrr.

I know my case is open and I can write to them if I have problems....What I really want to do is apply for full custody! The Cafcas worker asked me why I had not done this before...to which I replied I am Male.

There are not any significant safeguarding concerns but I do have concerns regarding my sons emotional needs. Which are:
The mother has another son age 7 who she has not seen as she alleged post natal depression (no proof)-She stopped seeing him when my son was born. She is currently fighting to get contact with him- My son is aware of this and she has told him-which was regarded in our court case as "emotionally harmful"

She is now pregnant!-

So my concerns are she will do the same thing to my son when the new baby is here and he will be pushed out, just like her other son. Also it may not be my place to say but when your ex has just taken you to court for contact, and you are going to court to get acsess to a child you have not seen for 5 years..is it really the time to get pregnant, and in the best intrest of my son?

Lastly i have had concerns in the past and documented these.

Seeing as I paied my £200 fees and just attended a 1st hearing in regards to contact order, will I be able to write to them and say I want to go back and apply for without paying again?

Also I work full time, different shifts would this affect my chances? [hide][/hide][hide][/hide]

to make it clear go back and apply for full custody.

Hi dad123

I don't think you have to pay another fee, but I'll ask our experts at CCLC to pop on (unless anyone else knows for certain beforehand) and help out.

Hi dad123,

There is definately something in this case then.

In regards to your question... if you only attended the first hearing, if you have had your case closed or an order made after that first case, then yes you will need to re-pay the fee to have the matter listed as another case.

So am i right that she now has 3 children by 3 different men?

Hi
Thanks for your reply. Thinking back the carcass worker said to me I can write to them if I had any issues and the case would continue so pretty sure I won't have to pay.

Yes when the baby is born it will be 4 children by 3 different men.

I believe she does not think me calling our son is worth while. And has stated she feels it's me being controlling! Which it isn't I enjoy calling him and writing to him as well as my contact, which is now out of her hands so think this is one thing she can control and will do. She told me to take her back to court over it! Surly it's less effort for her to answer the phone to me. And after the last session in court it hardly went in her favour so why would anyone want to put themselves through that again.

I'm baffled and being seperated for 5 years Im exhausted with it all and just want to be consistent in my sons life. And carry on enjoying my time with him. [hide][/hide]

Just a word of caution from my own experience….she may decide regardless of what she agreed to originally with you, that you contacting her is now you “Harassing” her and she could then go to the police with this and get you an harassment warning….or at least try to!

Due to my ex contesting contact between me and my son when I applied for a defined contact order…she stopped all contact including cards, letters, gifts and phone calls….but she did agree in court with solicitors and court officials present to allow contact between me and her about the house that is up for sale and our pet dog who was living with me.
However she failed to mention this to the police when I did have to contact her about the house and vet care that the dog was receiving and instead called the police several times claiming harassment.

I proved to several officers at several times that I was not harassing her by them checking my phone and the records I could produce from my service provider. I even went to the police station myself to give them 130 pages of text between us over the last 2yrs as proof to which they agreed I was not being harassing or abusive or threatening etc...
However she managed to convince a female detective at the PPU who insisted regardless of my proof that she wasn’t going to review my proof as other officers had done but was going to issue me with a harassment warning regardless of my insisting she look at the my phone and evidence!

I have fought this now for 4 months through the police complaints dept. and due to my very clever ex getting several warnings for wasting police time reversed by this Female detective I now find myself fighting this yet again but this time I get to show my proof in front of a county court Judge who I only hope will see the evidence and proof that I haven’t been the harasser and it is my ex who is the harasser by using the police to harass and intimidate me.

Again….i would be very careful about phoning….unless you can record every conversation you have with your ex to keep as proof…..texts you can certainly keep proof of and can be admissible for back ground evidence should you need it (so my solicitor said)…my ex made several very abusive and threatening phone calls to me when she received the court papers stating my application for defined contact, but because I had no way of recording them she lies and claims she never did!!!

I am in a very bitter battle with a very twisted hateful woman….be very wary and make sure everything is documented for your own protection/defence….you may need it…

my ex has now found out I have this all this proof now through disclosing this to her solicitors and the court….so lets see what she tries this Friday in front of the Judge!!!

One word of warning, if you do record a phone conversation, say at the start that you are recording otherwise it's not admissable as evidence unless the judge decides otherwise.

[hide]

Hi,

So its a year on, last time I was on here I was thinking about applying for full custody for my son.

I am going to do this for sure now, I thought since going to court and getting contact arranged things would be better but they are not.

I still have my son 12-13 nights a month, but I strongly belive it is in my sons best intrests to stay with me full time and see his mother perhaps 2 nights a week.

I have been reading up on this and researching lots and I know my chances are very slim.

My reasons for making this application are basically because I do not feel my ex is emotionally supportive for our son and her eratic/unstable behavouir is really effecting him.

- She is verbally abusive to me infront of my son, to the point my 6 year old is asking me why his mum hates me and why does she swear at me all the time. He has told me on many occasions he doesnt want to go back there and asked me if he can stay with me all the time. So basically burdens my son with adult problems, and has exposed him to conflict with not just me being the target.

She has lived in 6 differnt properties in 6 years..One of these being a house share where she was sharing a room with him when he was five- I offered to have him full time for this peroid but she said no, on the basis that she thought I would claim csa from her.

She is always belittling me infront of him, my son tells me that "mum said I can change my surname"- to her new boyfriends name.
My son has recently stated that my partner of 6 years is his "step mum", which is his choice. He has had a discussion about this with his mum who has told him that she is not, but her partner of a year is his step dad. She also insits that "mummys house" is reffered to as "home" and that dads is "dads house"

She has 4 children by 4 differnt men, but only cares for 2 of them, one being my son. She last year told my son that he has a brother, When we were at court they stated that this was emotionally harmful towards him and asked what she had done to support him-NOTHING was the answer. They advised for her to get him counselling...she did not. I believe she has been to court to get acsess to this son, my son is aware of this and has been at mine sobbing about it..numerous times. She wont talk to me about it and was dissmive when I asked could she acsess counselling. A week later my son stated " I cant talk to you about it, my mum gets angry"

Her behavouir is eratic and all though I have no proof, I am sure she has mental health issues. It appears if she is in control/things going her way I hear nothing, but when she is down I get the brunt of it, and my son is so aware of this.

My son has stayed with me for 2 weeks non stop on a few occasions and for 1 week non stop occasions, She never calls him or even a text to see how he is.

My sons maternal grandmother also speaks about me infront of my son, calling me an "idiot and pathetic father"

To be honest the list goes on, I have documented most things since 2010 in a chronology.

I want to know am I setting myself up to fail?

I am in the police and work shifts and my partner of 6 years works for social services, so we are full time worker but on the uphand in a finanical postion to support my son.

I have a really good bond with my son, which apparently was clear last time I went to court over contact. I have a brillant extended family who live local and adore my son.

She now has a 6 month baby- so my son has brother, so this could be seen as an issue, but If I were to have children with my partner he would only see them part time so cant really see how they could use this against me.

Any advice, reccomendations would be useful. I know the process is slow. But I really want to know is it worth me trying>??
I am also going to represent myself, I cant afford legal fees.

Thanks[/hide]

To be honest, I think the best answer I can give is that you don't really have anything to lose by trying, and if you don't try, then you will always wonder if you should have done. I agree that your chances aren't too high, but it's not out of the question that you could succeed from her behaviour. The only danger is that your ex may try to restrict contact while the case is being heard, so I'd get an interim order for contact at the first hearing to maintain the level of contact you have already.

Take a look at yoji's guide to representing yourself at the top if the legal eagle section.