[Solved] Varying a Court Order regarding contact?

Evening Yoji

I think you may have read my last post regarding contact wrongly.

What i have quoted at the begining of the post is Actually the Current Contact Order that is in place to date (2007- to date).

This was wrangled out through the courts and caffcas back in 2007 and was the result of the Pedantic request of my ex and her solicitors even though caffcas advised them against it , it still got passed through as the caffcas officer at the time advised me to accept for now ( because caffcas could not even get the ex to be reasonable about contact) and they just wanted to get an outcome after the length of time it had been dragged out, and they said as did the Judge "you can always come back at a latter date to have it varied, but it wont last forever as a natural progression to contact should develop". (other wise as my solicitor said its a cop out just to get your case out of the way, as they cant get your ex to agree and they just need the space for more serious cases as your has just been determined as a case of your ex wanting to stick the Knife in as it were!)
They said in ther reports that the only obsticle to contact was the Mother! No other reason!. (This conclusion took over a year for them to come to resulting in precious time lost with my daughter not to mention physical and mental costs to us )
But to this day, it has got no better.
So this is why im seeking to vary the order to simplify it and at the same time extend it for my daughters benefit and mine as her mum doesnt want to discuss contact and my daughters feelings and requst are pushed to the side , her mum just wants to hide behind the current order and use it against my daughter and i and our new family and use it as a BIG BEATING STICK!!

What Im actually considering is to ask the court to take all the silly pedantic measures out of the order not the other way round. Its to complicated as it is, we never know where we stand.
That is why for example, i was asking about when the order states : "every last weekend of the month its a long weekend friday to sunday"
when is it the last weekend of the month? Because the ex determines when that is, NOT the order, its left open for her to interpret it as she see fit, the order is just not clear enough.

All the other stuff like weekends, christmas, easter dates etc that i quoted " friday following easter" "Christmas Holidays. The day after Boxing day at 5.30 till whatever it says " "wednesday 5.30 till 8pm" " friday 6.45 till saturday 6pm"
thats all her doing!!!!
Not what im requesting, thats what i already put up with and its driving us insane!!

PS ANYONE going to court to sort out contact please dont fall for the wording of the Contact Order. CHECK the PHRASING of it YOURSELF check the dates, how it says hand over will take place, who takes who where etc please because usually the other sides solicitors are very cunning and pick up on loop holes to expliot . What we may see as one thing they already have determind as another to use to their clients benefit. (Thats just from my experience).

So im just trying to establish whether i am going mad or i am wright in asking a court to simplfy and extend contact.

Hi DAG,

I see now, many apologies.

Unless i am missing something, again my variance example could cover this. You would just need to put specifics to each of those dates. Its just from the context that this would simplify it. The actual work would be done in the Court room.

All the same i am absolutely flabbergasted at your current Order??? What was the Panel/Judge thinking who wrote this through, added the specifics, gave into whim of such a difficult and perplexing order??? I think i mentioned in my earlier post that the Court would huff at this... I've seen a fair few complicated ones but... yours takes the biscuit.

If you are seeking to vary the Order to simplify it... definately do this, Christ, you lost me! Your particular part that you refer to as you say could potentially be open to interpretation. Me personally i would request that every 4th or 5th week there is a long weekend. You are therefore working with numbers that cannot be mis-interpreted, twisted etc. Hope this has helped a little more?

Christ, you lost me!

that made me laugh, I think that's the first time you've been caught out. I was lost ages before 😆

:woohoo:
Thankyou Yoji

Halaujah I'm not going mad!!!

I thought I was going insane we have put up with this for 5 years.
And hum'd n ar'd at wether we would be took seriously with our requests of simplification.
And at times my daughter and I have stood in the driveway and just looked at each other laughing hysterically as to whether its time to take her back or not sometimes going back in the house and unpacking her bag after a txt from her mum, at other times I have turned up for her to be told go home its not your weekend, txt prior to contact etc etc.
We have the court order blue tacked on the back of the tall boy door because we have to double check and refer to it constantly along with a year planner mapping our time out together. Wednesday nights flash by as we only get 2 1/2 hours together my daughter wants to stay over now and go to school from here. In the Christmas hols we are always check-in we have the right year to be together on new years eve and for the 2nd year running we still have no confirmation to the Easter hols as the order states " Friday followig Easter etc" which would mean us missing being together during the school holidays as school has or would have already re-opened at this time.
This is no joke it literally governs every aspect of all of our lives every week, even including that of my partners life and her kids we never take for granted we will all be together at holiday times or pre organised activities during these times.
I have no doubt my ex's solicitor was a expert in his field of contact arrangements and their structure, in as being interpreted for ones benefit over the other. In fact he apparently was renowned for it I found this out after, and he was proud of this.
(Through my past experiences during my divorce/contact proceedings 2006 to 2011 and dealings in my profession)
But my confidence is shattered, as even the judge and caffcas couldn't get through to them in the past.
So now even though I have had everthing ready for months to take it back I just can't do the deed I'm frozen to the spot with fear of coming up against him again and a judge who just wants it out of the way without consideration of what has actually has been happening. I have no faith in the judicial system.

Hi DAG,

Lol yes, very confusing and like i say i'm amazed a Court has done this!!!

Have you ever thought more practically regarding a Shared Parenting Order (aka Shared Care)? In my opinion, you've got it already, Shared Care does not mean 50/50, just so you are aware.

In this way your contact could be re-summarised as follows:
Wednesday night
Weekends Friday-Saturday at 6pm
1wk of Easter Half Term
2nd and 5th Weeks of Summer Holidays
Alternate Christmas and New Year

And i would stongly contest your ex's solicitor being an expert in the contact field. That Order is absolutely abhorrent.

When in Court i'd explain your concerns about the level of precision that is not needed in relation to this Contact Order... you've put up with a difficult to follow Order for 5years now, and its time that the field is brought level. Now i'm in full understanding mode, i'd say practically you should request a Shared Parenting Order with the above specified. The judicial system should be getting better very soon, and many professionals are now much more sympathetic to the plight of Children and Fathers wanting eachother. 🙂

Hi Yoji
thankyou so much again for taking the time to look at my post.

You deserve a medal for getting your head round that little lot.
I could kiss you in a manly kinda way 😆 ! Second thoughts i will just get you a pint :cheer: .

What you have put makes so much more sense.
Im not asking to take anything away from my ex, just to as you put it "level the field".

From the outset i never obstructed anything even when she put in for residency. Because at that time i was back at my parents and didnt see residency being anything other than our daughter living at home with her mum. Its just since then when i have requested anything to do with our daughters contact arrangements, she bleats " I have residency and stick to the court order"! thats when and if she does reply.

I have a few question to ask you could i come back later to get your view on what you have mentioned please?
I would appreciate it as for the first time for a long time i dont feel like im going mad ;;) .

Hi DAG,

Sure feel free i should be checking back on here after 9 when little ones have gone sleep 🙂 and hopefully i can help some more.

Hello Yoji
sorry its been a while and i have'nt got back to you to ask about the Shared Parenting Order you mentioned in your previous replies, but really been busy with work etc.
Firstly developements since my last posts
I have now applied to court for a hearing to vary the current contact order. (after sitting on it for so long worrying about it, you certainly gave me the confidence by making me see i was'nt going mad)
I submitted the C100 and associated documents plus the fee with the intention of representing myself :sick: !
Just over a week ago i received a date for three weeks time (this being due to the local magistrates court having time to take some family proceeding cases to lighten the load on the county court) so we have lift off (my knees are shaking).
The court served the papers on my behalf so that saved me the hassle of having to do that.
I received a letter from cafcass the other day saying they will call me and my ex to see why this has been applied to court and if there are any issues relating to the wellbeing of our daughter, they may well speak to our daughter and her school and following checks to the authorities police etc they will then provide the court with any advice about the application that has been made.
So now im in the process of actually sitting down to put my statement and request together ahead of the first hearig.
I have simplified the current order to something like you suggested with the added contact i am seeking blended into it and it looks sooooooo much easier to understand and follow. But my gut feeling is i am going to face a wall of opposistion from the other side.
Could you please direct me to where i could read a bit more about the Shared Parenting Order (aka Shared Care) you mentioned in the previous post.
And would the section on here about representing yourself in court be applicable to attending a variation of an existing order? I know the principles are the same it was more of the approach i should take i am thinking about (and if anyone reading this has any experience in going through the variation process then any pointers would really be appreciated).
Just to add, in my ealier post i mentioned i had contacted my ex last october re; the easter holidays as following the current order dates for easter would mean i would miss the school holidays due to the wording of it (ie; easter from Friday following easter at 5.30 pm to the following saturday 6.00 pm) so i sent a suggestion to the ex for me to take the same amount of time but apply it to the fisrt week of the holidays this was meet firstly by her saying she hadnt even thought about christmas, then when i asked in november if it could be just penciled in, i was accused of Pushing her !!!!!!?? And after xmas when i tried i just got "i havent looked at my rota!" since then i have had no reply, , , , , , , , until today when she said she had spoke to her solicitor and suggested i take the first week ( i thought i had already suggested that? AHH no wait theres a catch!!) but i take a day and 1 3/4 hours less than the actual order states i should have my daughter at easter. Or alternatively she doesnt mind going to court" NOT A PROBLEM" she stated.

So thats where i am at at the moment, i would appreciate any pointers you could give,and thank you ALL again for your ealier replies and advice. 🙂

Hi DAG,

Good to hear back from you. Its certainly an excitingly nervous feeling you get when submitting something that is clearly so important.

In answer to the Shared Care, it depends what you want to read about if its just general information:
http://www.sharedparenting.org.uk/ <-- Are relatively good
http://www.thecustodyminefield.com/12.html <-- Are often what i use as my Bible and cover the Legality aspect, along with legal reading, free reading and other things i've learned through combined experience

Hope this helps.

In terms of the opposition your main stance is that simplifying contact is going to be beneficial to your child and even the Mother. Working around .30's and .45's is not a reasonable expectation and indeed given the current level of Contact, a Shared Residence order is the most logical, significant and beneficial Order that should be considered.

Evening Yoji
Thankyou for the links I will take a look at them both and I appreciate the support. Just a quick question,can I ask for the shared parenting order to be included even tho the ex has residency ?

And I would just like to say to all the dads on here who are having a difficult time over contact with their kids is to stay strong and focused because for as long as it takes when our kids have families of their own they can proudly say to them how devoted we were in trying to give them love and security in their lives.

Hi DAG,

Even if you go for Shared Care as long as she receives the Child Benefit she will still under many sections of Law be the Resident Parent. Thus it isn't affected. The easiest way of thinking is that it is recognised a Child has TWO homes.

🙂

Good morning

Thanks for reply Yoji that makes sense.

Just an update nothing much, as I have made an application to vary an order I knew Cafcass would be contacting both sides to get an understanding of the reasons for this.
However I received a call to arrange a convenient time for the Cafcass worker to call me back to discuss the application and they introduced themselves as the SOCIAL WORKER who would be conducting the report to advise the court?
Just a question.
I thought Cafcass workers wer'nt Social Workers?
In all their information they state they are not Social Workers but Family Court Advisors.
Is there a shortage of Cafcass workers so Social Workers are filling in?
Just seems odd!
I will ask when they contact me again but that's not till next week.
My last contact with Cafcass was back in 2007 so it might have changed...?