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Unsupervised contac...
 
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[Solved] Unsupervised contact

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(@Paul_6611)
Reputable Member Registered

I'm sure many of you are familiar with my story. After recently going to court the judge said to my ex that supervised contact was not in the children's interests and that she was to look at unsupervised contact. Last Saturday she refused and I still had to see them at a contact centre.
My ex has now agreed, after speaking to children's services, that I can have our daughters unsupervised. She hasn't specified how long this will be for or how often but she is now going to drop them off on Saturday for a couple of hours. I'm guessing this will now be permanent until the next court hearing in February - she'd look a bit silly if she allowed unsupervised contact one week and then insisted on supervised the next.
But, given that I was seeing our daughters at my ex's mothers house every other week, and that they used this contact to make more allegations against me, I don't feel comfortable having my ex entering my home. It's opening myself up to more trouble.
Can other members please give me an idea what they do at handovers when things have gone wrong - is it reasonable to expect that she just drops them off and leaves? I've read something about contact books which seems like it might be useful but I don't want this to become another way of my ex controlling me and my daughters by using the book to issue her demands. All I want is to see my girls and to stop any potential for further hassle. I'd be happy with no contact with her at all if it was possible but I guess we have to communicate somehow for the girls sake.

This is the first glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel - after nearly two very long years there's a little hope that things might start to change. I don't want to mess things up. All and any advice would be appreciated πŸ™‚

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Topic starter Posted : 26/10/2017 11:54 pm
(@got-the-tshirt)
Famed Member Registered

Hi There,
.
Contact books can work if used rightly, you can give details between the 2 of you without involving the girls.
.
I wouldn't want my ex anywhere near me let alone in my house, so I would stand at the door and ensure that's where it stays, go along the lines of saying, "ok girls say good bye to mum" let them go inside and then work out a time for them to be collected, maybe even suggest to meet her else where away from the house in case she expects to come in.
.
GTTS

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Posted : 27/10/2017 12:54 am
(@Paul_6611)
Reputable Member Registered

Thanks - if she starts insisting she wants to come in to make sure my home is safe, what do I say. I know it is but she'll probably find something wrong.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 27/10/2017 2:51 am
 Mojo
(@Mojo)
Illustrious Member Registered

If you're worried about her coming to the door, ask if drop offs/pick ups can take place nearby, perhaps a supermarket car park or parade of shops. There's usually CCTV in such places which should help to make you both feel more secure. You can also have your phone on record, although you've probably thought to do this anyway.

I guess you'll have to play it by ear, just try not to create any added tension when the children are about, easier said than done sometimes, I know!

A communication book might be a good idea, if she starts to use it to make unreasonable demands, or as a method of controlling your time with the children, just don't rise to it, but screenshot anything you deem inappropriate or abusive, just don't respond and use the book yourself as it should be used; to pass information on such as what they've eaten, or if they've been unwell etc.

Best of luck

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Posted : 27/10/2017 3:47 pm
(@dad-i-d)
Noble Member Registered

I had exactly that problem with the ex and then later when handovers were done by her mother i couldn't get rid of her....what should've been a 5min drop off ang go turned in to a "lets just have a cuppa to show (child) we are being amicable" 30-40mins later she was still there and no sign of going on some occassions. so got it changed to a mutual drop off point near their house a Maccie D's carpark....that pretty much helped to keep them away for a little bit.

later when i'd been verbally attacked and threatened by her family for taking her back to court to increase contact i managed to get the handovers done at a local playzone...CCTV and plenty of public around to help protect me from the vile abuse i've had to deal with over the years....again what started as a 5min drop off increased to the "lets have a cuppa and talk" rubbish....30-40mins+ quickly became the norm again....the only times it change were when i took it back to court for increases in contact.....but they'd slowly creep out the times again to eat in to my time.

there seemed no easy way to deal with it without being seen to be hostile towards them i'm affraid to say it....i'll be honest i'm petrified of being in the same room as them and i'm a 6'2", 18st ex rugby player size guy...so i just kept going along with it week after week to show my little one that i'm being amicable with the evil witches!

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Posted : 27/10/2017 4:34 pm
(@superprouddad)
Reputable Member Registered

Also try not to worry too much about what she may or may not do, you can't control that, and both her and the children may pick up on the tension.

If I'm honest, my handover last week was surprisingly civil, and the ex was helpful even. I was worrying about loads of things that just didn't happen.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/10/2017 6:50 pm
(@justdad)
Estimable Member Registered

Paul,

Welcome to the next phase of the nightmare that is co-parenting with, what I can only assume is a personality disordered ex. The comments you make about her mum would seem to confirm this in my mind too. It tends to run in the family.

You say this is the glimmer of a light at the end of the tunnel - I am so pleased for you. That light is far far brighter than you know. Once contact starts again, things begin to snowball.

You are quite right in so far as handovers should be away from your home. Remember to try to negotiate travelling time into this equation? Try to add 20-30 mins to the time agreed.

When getting ready to hand your daughters back, make sure they are clean and tidy (no disrespect intended here - it's something some may forget!). I have my twins Tuesday to Friday and around Thursday start telling them "you'll be seeing mummy tomorrow". Although it doesn't always work in the case of my daughter, I do all I can to make sure they look forward to the time they will spend with mum.

What you have to do, now, is what I can only describe as "re-configure" yourself. You've been through [censored], she has done her best to remove you from your girls lives but you're still here - you've won. Focus now on your daughters happiness and accept (I am not saying you don't accept it) that they love both you and mum and from now on, your role is to enjoy them while they enjoy you.

Too many dads out there continue the "fight" when they have already won. This creates a whole new raft of problems and ammunition for the ex to use against you.

I would be trying to agree that contact slowly progresses to 4-5 hours at a time before the next hearing. You then push for twice weekly and once that has run for a few months, overnights.

I have found contact books to be both useful and difficult to use. Any level of communication with the person who "stole" your children is always going to be hard. I waiver from using the one my ex imposed upon me and using email - I am now learning that the method of communication doesn't make any real difference. What makes a difference is how you handle the communication. Be businesslike and factual and try your hardest not to react to any jibes or comments you perceive as such.

Everything I say to you Paul is based on my own experience. Your situation may be different.

All in all, enjoy your girls, let them enjoy you and mum. Keep clawing back time with them - bit by bit.

Ultimately, remember, nothing is ever "over" the ex is what she is and is likely to continue to be that person. You need to be a good dad - which I am positive you are.

Cheers

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Posted : 27/10/2017 10:55 pm
(@Paul_6611)
Reputable Member Registered

Thanks Justdad.

You're right about the mother of the mother but I think it's more a case of she's defending her daughter and will say or do anything to achieve that, whether it's true or not. There is a history of mental disorders in my ex's family - three of them registered medically. Of course that doesn't seem to be making any difference.

I'm a little confused how I go about getting more contact. Once the final hearing is over in February, what do I have to do to achieve this?

Also my main concern at the moment is that if I refuse to let my ex into my home, can she start withholding contact again?

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 27/10/2017 11:08 pm
(@justdad)
Estimable Member Registered

She can do what she wants Paul.

Show the Court contact is working and that your daughters are happy. I would suggest, in the contact book, that contact slowly increases to the 4-5 hours I mentioned before. If she refuses, she refuses but two hours a week is nowhere near enough for the girls. They have two parents and they need that time with both.

How old are they again please?

What the Court have an obligation to facilitate here is a "meaningful relationship" with both parents. The ex may well rebel against what you want but in the Court arena it's not really up to her. It may have seemed that way up to this point but as I said, you need to "reconfigure" and push forwards.

I have used this article many times in Court for both myself and other fathers, it seems to help in so far as it makes it very clear that too little time with a father is detrimental to a child https://sharedparenting.wordpress.com/2014/11/04/51/

Regards

JD πŸ™‚

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/10/2017 11:20 pm
waitkeeper, superprouddad, waitkeeper and 1 people reacted
(@Paul_6611)
Reputable Member Registered

They're 6 and 8.

So do I have to reapply to the courts or even after the final hearing, is there a continuation for contact to be increased? It's crucifying that there is so much time between hearings already. At this rate I won't get to have them overnight for a year or so.

Could I reasonably ask for more than 4-5 hours a week - the only reason it's at two hours now is my ex's decision. It's all so incredibly wrong. The children have two parents - one parent shouldn't have the right to decide on such a minimal amount of contact. Surely the courts should be aiming towards equal access as soon as possible?

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 27/10/2017 11:41 pm
(@justdad)
Estimable Member Registered

I would be suggesting to her that:

From week 4, it increases to 3 hours a week

From week 8 it increases to 4 hours a week

From week 12 it increases to 5 hours a week.

If she refuses any of this, the Court will at least have an accurate view of what her expectations are.

I would assume in Feb, it will increase anyway. Final Hearings don't always happen and if they do, you can ask for a review in six months.

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Posted : 27/10/2017 11:57 pm
(@superprouddad)
Reputable Member Registered

Paul, the courts will give you what you ask for if you frame your request in terms of positive outcomes for the child.

In my case, the progression starts with 4 hours a week, after one month goes up to 12 hours a week, after another month 16 hours a week and 2 months later we start overnights. It's slow progress. It was made slower because the mother disputed everything until the last minute, so in a way you are doing better than me, because your ex has at least "offered" (hate that word) something, where mine just basically wanted me in a contact centre with no end in sight.

Me and my boy had an absolute blast the last time we were together, I hadn't seen him laughing so hard before πŸ™‚ So I have the same question as you, once we reach the end of the current progression, how do I get an extra overnight ? But it's one step at a time, for now, I just focus on making sure we don't regress from where we are.

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Posted : 28/10/2017 12:07 am
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