[Solved] Travel arrangements for contact-please help X

Hi jj80,

Its worth noting that in these circumstances that the Judge can choose not to follow CAFCASS recommendations.

In these instances and nobody can say for certain the exact likely outcome. There are several things that you could actually put forward.

I would strongly suggest that at the hearing you request the Court to consider that Contact does still go ahead (thereby supporting your partners child having contact with the Mother) however you will need to state that owed to work commitments the 4pm (and given her moving) is no longer a feasible nor practical expectation.

You need to be reasonable and suggest that the hours of contact move to later from the Friday. For example 6pm, this to accommodate your employment. A Judge is highly unlikely to continue to Order a continuation of the 4pm in light of this. I also think that a letter from your employer would support this assertion.

At the end of the day, despite the situation a Court will still want to see you being prepared to support your partners child with this contact, and indeed its good to see such a supportive partner in yourself 🙂

In direct answer to your questions though:
1) Sometimes none, the Court can often expect the NRP to do all the travelling, however these days in the interests of fairness some Judges may order a 50/50 travel/transport arrangement provided both parties can have access to a vehicle
2) Depends on the circumstances entirely. If you were to sell your car for example, they would be expected to travel as far as needs be to either meet the requirements of the order, or opt for a variation to accommodate their ability to travel to meet the variation of the order
3) Then likely point 2 will apply.

Given that you have stated the Mental Health of your partners ex and your continuing contact, i take it you are still OK with this given that the supervision element is still there? Is this correct?

Thanks for the reply, brief history of whats going on:-
My fiance asked for a section 7 report last time in court as there were issues with the contact, we have recieved the report this week and are gobsmacked!! When we met with the cafcass officer she thought contact centre was a good idea given the history but not appropriate as contact could then lead to unsupervised completely within a few months which would be too soon, and she was going to recommend less frequent contact. The mother has recently moved further away (2 1/2 hours from us) to a shared house for people with mental health problems (BPD). The report is totally different to what she had advised us and we feel it is biased towards the Mother rather than concentrating on B. She has said that the mother be allowed up to 2 hours unsupervised contact whilst he is at her parents ( but not to go to the pub)and its up to them to decided if said contact is appropriate ( they turned a blind eye to all of the abuse for 5 years in which she was reported to SS 23 times) so we dont trust them at all. It harps on about the 80 miles driving her father has to do on weekends B is there ( not our problem?) It also says that contact arrangements should stay the same for the next few months (which we told her was a nightmare as we are both having to leave work early). and she has then gone on to recommend that we go back to court in June (when she knows we are getting married & going on holiday for B's 6th Birthday :s) with a view of contact becoming totally unsupervised?!! Having no solicitor is a nightmare but we simply cannot afford one. We know that the judge will be inclined to go with what cafcass recommends but feel he is our only hope now-so will be writing a kick [censored] position statement.
My fear is that we are taking on a big fight with cafcass as she's been doing it 20 years etc, we just want B to be happy with arrangements and SAFE at all times. The report mentions our inflexibilty with regards phone contact-she is only allowed to call on a wednesday at 6.30 and very often doesnt bother-no mention of that in report? or her calling drunk, which the school headmistress told cafcass as she'd received a call that day just before B did. No mention of the fact that she has told the CSA she stays over night at her parents house which ios a lie. She's told them that to avoid having £5 a week deducted from her benefits. I could go on and on and on.
Her psychiatric nurse is 'delighted' with her progress, the new medication has made an enormous difference apparently,. She's going to parenting classes, anger management, alcoholic and drug abuse support groups etc etc. She didnt react to the stress loosing him has undoubtably put her under, it was so selfless of her. BS she couldnt wait to get rid of him and was out drinking most of the time before he came to us. Her giving him up was SELFISH-why cant they see that?

Spoke to manager at cafcass yesterday, the woman that did our report is on leave for a month. She said she tought the report was balanced etc, and how ill mother has been (as excuse for all previous behaviour) and how it sounds as though she's doing great. When I said the cafcass officer had told us she was recommending less frequent contact she sounded stunned and said she found it hard to believe that officer would have said anything like that. Cafcas is meant to be the voice of the child and I just cant believe how much the report focuses on what the mother wants, regardless of everyone else's feelings.

The contact is every other weekend at her parents and they want her to be allowed to take him out on her own for up to 2 hours.
My partner doesnt doesnt drive, never needed to and we cant afford lessons etc at the moment.
School havent mentioned any change in behaviour but they've got lots of children to deal with.

Have emailed the court asking them to ask the judge if its ok to do a position statement and havent heard back yet. So we are going to prepare one anywya.

I agree with yoji broadly on his comments.

My case is a few years old now, but in my case Cafcass officer stated that she thought it was too onerous for the child (then about 7) to have to travel 3hours each way by car to see her mother, so recommended that contact should be supervised at the local contact centre with the mother having to travel down each time, and that's the way it's remained ever since. I would say that it might be worth persuing something along the same lines as 2.5 hours each way every alternate week, with a rush to do it immediately after school is not good for a child.

I would also be very tempted to go for supervised contact at the local contact centre, with a provision that if that goes OK, to then move to supervised contact with your ex's father after a suitable period of time - but I'd certainly raise the point that you have concerns that he would hide facts about your ex's behaviour/drinking etc in order to protect her, even if it was detrimental to B.

A question for yoji's opinion again - what do you reckon the effect would be in court if jj80 was to lodge a complaint against Cafcass listing all of the (major) points that have been overlooked - do you think this would raise the problem to the court's attention and partially discredit the cafcass report in it's shortcomings, or do you think the court would not take kindly to jj80 arguing against Cafcass?

I am also going to ask our experts at CCLC to pop on and give an opinion, so keep an eye out for that also.

one more thing, jj80, have you read yoji's posts on self representing at the top of the legal section? If not, I would very much recommend that you do so.

Hi actd,

I don't know if you remember warhol from on here a while ago? I called him and spoke to his girlfriend regarding their case and she asked me the same thing. Essentially, the way the Courts will view this is that its entirely your right to lodge a complaint highlighting that their report has missed points XYZ. There shouldn't be an issue.

From this CAFCASS can or should begin enquiries into this (especially given their nature). If a complaint was to be lodged it would need to be done so that its more of an awareness raising complaint rather than a you've done this wrong. You could request a new review to be done specifically to cover these points and CAFCASS can or should (i stress should) carry this out given the nature of the items omitted.

In answer to jj80, even with the travel, it would be "reasonable" to expect you to travel in order to support contact. Thats the way they'd look at it

Dear JJ80

We would need to establish whether the next hearing is a final hearing or not. Also, have you received anything back from the Judge regarding your position statement?

In terms of travel arrangements, there isn't anything set our in law stating that one parent should do all the travelling. It is usually what can be agreed between the parties or what a Judge has set down in any Contact Order.

Our advice today would be to attend the next hearing with all your concerns noted to put forward to the Judge. If the Judge does make an Order that follows the outcome of CAFCASS and it is the final hearing then you are able to appeal the decision made.

We would also need further information in order to advise you fully on your matter. If you require further assistance, particularly after the Court hearing has taken place please do contact us directly either via our webchat faciility at http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/index.php?page=web_chat or on our freephone advice line 0808 8020 008.

We wish you the best of luck.

CORAM CHILDREN'S LEGAL CENTRE

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. Still nothing from the Judge, my partner tried to negotiate with her Father at drop off Friday but he got really aggressive and said its not his problem my partner cant finish early, he's got to get back to his 2nd job delivering chinese on a Friday nightt?! (far more important than my partners full time employment obviously) We have a letter from partners's boss now saying they cant let him go any earlier than 4.30 on a Friday from now on so they will just have to deal with it. Its not our fault her dad did a bad job bringing up his daughter, turned a blind eye to all the abuse and neglect his grandson was suffering, nor is it our fault she was violent towards her son thus meaning she is only allowed supervised contact. AAAhhhhh!

Well, if your partner can't leave before 4:30, I would say that's the time you work to, and if you are late for contact, then let your partner's ex take it up with the court - I would say that you are both trying to accomodate and facilitate contact as much as you are able and I think the courts will recognise that. I cannot see that any court would expect him to sacrifice his job to fit around contact, and it's not him that moved further away.

It would be worth having a word with the CCLC as they suggest above.

Oh and as far as I am aware its a Directions hearing, still no reply from judge. Will be calling childrens legal centre after work today X

Hi again, we made a start on a letter to the judge last night, really struggling with how to word something, i wonder if anyone might be able to shed some light.

What we want to get across is that I (pwc's-partner) will not always be available to drive to facilitate contact, car may break, I may be ill, or with child etc, there needs to be an alternative. which we dont know what to suggest-they could come all the way-but are adamant that should never happen what with all the driving her dad has to do ;;)

Any snippets or suggestions will be greatfully received X

Hi jj80,

Your letter does not need to be anything overly complicated.

Something along the following lines should suffice:

Dear [JUDGE]

RE: [CASE NUMBER] [PARTNERS SURNAME] vs [EX SURNAME] for Hearing of [DATE OF HEARING]

[Paragraph on Background about the case and the travel/finishing work]

While i am highly supportive of Contact taking place, I will be requesting that the Contact happens later to accommodate my Employers expectations of me to fulfil my Working Contract. Recently the circumstance has been such that my Employer is now no longer allowing me to finish work early on a Friday. As such I would request that Contact happen at [WHEN YOU WANT IT TO START].

I would also like to point out to the Court that i am reliant on my Partner making the journeys to facilitate this Contact. I am concerned as to the outcomes and expectations that may be placed on me by the Court in the event that:
• Event 1
• Event 2
• Event 3

Last Line
You can either write that you hope to hear a response to this prior to or during the next hearing.

Yours sincerely,

[PARTNERS NAME]

Hope this has helped. Remember, don't go overboard.

Hi thanks for all the replies. YESTERDAY-what a farce! I really can t believe the system and people involved can get away with it. We made several suggestions for handovers ie, The mother cathches the train up to meeting place as she has no job, she's got all day to get there, Or they meet us an hour later, Or Saturday morning instead. We spoke to a woman from CAFCASS when we got there having given letter to judge, this wasnt the woman who did report it was the woman who originally advised asking for a section 7. She basically confirmed this is all about the Mother and her illness, its our duty to make sure child maintains relationship with her. Mother did the ultimate act of love by giving him up, (ill understand the unbereakable biological bond when I have my own children apparently) its been so hard for her, her illness blah blah. So she then went to see Mother and her Father and solicitor. Came back and said that they wont agree any suggestions, father has to get back for 2nd job delivering chinese to pay for all the petrol he uses for handovers. Thier suggestion was, I drive to Cornwall on a Friday after partner finishes work and they bring him all the way back Sundays. Well, we didnt agree to that as I dont see why we should all run around after her. Cafcass said if you dont make agreement befor eyou go in the Judge could Order that you HAVE to do it! so as my partner doesnt drive (which they were questioning him on, suggesting he learns) and he cant finish work, I have to take child for contact at 4pm. If my car breaks I'll just have to borrow one, or if I'm ill then John will HAVE to finish early to get him there. I'm so annoyed today, I really feel like we were cornered and Bullied yesterday. Now cafcass are going to see how she gets on with 2 hours unsupervised and we are back in court in July. I'm so upset with it all, that I have to do so much for contact when they treat me like a nanny, not the person that gets him up every morning, washes dresses feeds LOVES him. Who do we turn to now? There is no thanks from them! but cafcass said I'll go and say thanks from you for them agreeing this!?! coz it looks good on your part. I cant believe this is ALL about her, not child. Now who do we turn to, feel like they are walking all over us as we dont have a solicitor. We dont know what to do, she was laughing all the way yesterday. 🙁

Hi jj80

That sounds almost like the cafcass officer is just trying to make her own life simple by getting an 'agreement' rather than doing what is best.

I would have another word with CCLC to see what you can do to prepare for the hearing in July - the more time you have to prepare, the better you will feel at the hearing. One thing that occurs to me from what you said is that the cafcass officer said if you don't agree, then the court could force you to agree - so the question is what did you have to lose by not agreeing? If you had a good reason for not agreeing, then if you have a good alternative, then the judge will at least listen to your argument, whereas now the judge thinks you are happy with the arrangements.

You're so right, [censored] [censored] what are we going to do now. I will speak to cclc again. I really wanted less to do with contact arrangements and now it's me dropping him off, we didn't feel we could risk him going in and the judge ordering we take him all the way on a Friday after work, that would have been a nightmare! Im going to hate this, she refers to me as 'it' this is so degrading. He made me a card for mothers day at school, we asked him if he'd made his mother one and he said no, we've asked him if he would like to make one to take with him next weekend and he has said no, we've asked him if he would like to call her today and he's said no. We think his feelings should be respected in our house and don't want to force him but at the same time are worried about what cafcass will say, as it's our duty to ensure he has a good relationship with her. We're thinking of writing to the judge again maybe. Thanks for your help. X

Keep in touch on here - we can't always provide the answers, but sometimes we can come up with the questions, which can be just as useful on occasions 🙂