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Hi, sorry but this is going to be a long read.
I left my ex 2 years ago due to her putting our children in danger and them needing a normal upbringing. She's been an alcoholic for years and tbh I stayed for the children. The night I left she had taking the boys to a pub where she was drinking all day ( not the first time) and later that evening she went to a friends to continue drinking. I was sent photos of her collapsed in the street drunk with the children and she had urinated all over herself. After I left and took the children to my parents she locked herself in the house for a week continuing to drink and refusing me and the children any of our belongings, after a week I had a phone call to inform me she'd left the house to go drinking at the local. I managed to get in the house and managed to take photos of bags and bags of empty cans, the smell in the house was awful, she had urinated the bed and also there was poo all over the sheets, which wasn't uncommon as I has witnessed this many times over the years. On a regular basis i would come home from work and shed be passed out and the children sitting there with biscuits or whatever they could reach to eat. Fast forward she attended gdas (gwent drug and alcohol serclvices) and because of this social stated there were no safeguarding issues even though no proof was provided and she started to have the children back. She was still going out drinking socials words to me was, " what's the matter with her drinking, heroin addicts and alcoholics have full custody of their children it's not uncommon" and they kept repeating that what I had to say was hearsay, as my comments were coming from what the children had told me. A few months later I had a phone call from one of my ex's friends to say she was drunk and was told you can't give the children back today. I went to her house without the boys and she was drunk so I refused to hand the children over, she turned up at my parents house with her mother demanding the children. The police was called and confirmed she was drunk and allowed the children to stay with me the maternal grandmother told the police it doesnt matter if shes drunk as long as she was not which is also in the police records. Social stated that she shouldn't see the boys for 1 day only. The next day we both showed up at school and the police was called again, the police spoke to the boys and their words from the police records was "without hesitation they wanted to go with the father". I applied for an emergency hearing as social stated there was no safeguarding issues but the court deemed no change of residence. And i should add after the incident of her turning up she had told me that she had appendicitis and hadn't seen the children for a week, when I saw the boys they told me that her mother was passed out drunk they had to feed the cats and maternal grandmother had to feed them as they was starving and an ambulance was called by a friend and grandmother cancelled the ambulance and told the children they had to say she had appendicitis. Her family are big drinker also and cover and protect her rather than the children, also there are no hospital or gp records confirming her story of appendicitis. I begged social to come out and speak to the boys as I was worried they wouldn't speak the truth because quite often they are forced to lie by ex's family. Social refused. So I took it upon myself to set a camera up and catch the boys saying these things and in the video, they mention how she was passed out drunk during the false appendicitis issue. She had taking them to a pub Halloween and back to a friend's house, and she had also taking them to a 2 day house party where she had got drunk and took a man back home with her and the boys. I also have a witness statement from people at that house party stating she was drunk and giving that man oral [censored] in the bathroom upstairs. After applying for court she stopped me seeing the boys for 3 months and even got both boys to say in different rooms, that they never wanted to see me again and only want phone calls, at the time they was 8 and 6 years old. Social still state there are no safeguarding issues. We have now been to court with multiple pieces of evidence and a section 7 has been completed by social and also 2 alcohol test have been done both with chronic excessive alcohol levels and social section 7 states there are still bo safeguarding issues and the children should stay with mother and father shouldn't even have 50/50 care.... even though it says in the section 7 that I am the more stable parent and can provide a better environment for the children. But they state that mother no longer drinks despite 2 excessive alcohol tests, social had tried to say that her tests proved she has significantly lowered her alcohol use. I have now received a document from the testing company stating that you cannot prove one test is lower than the other all that can be concluded from these tests is that they are both excessive levels of alcohol. Also my ex had moved back in with her parents and the children have had to share a bottom bunk bed as they're cousin is on the top bunk, she then decided to say she now sleeps on the landing and the boys don't share a bed, even though I've been told different. Also it has come out that her and her father (maternal grandfather) forced the children to say they never wanted to see me again, when told by the children they was shaking in fear of them finding out they had told me. And still social want to close the case and are stating there are no concerns. My barrister has advised me to put in a complaint against social services when court is over. This is the short version of the events so much more has happened. I feel my children have been let down by a system designed to protect them. Has anyone experienced anything similar where social services are refusing to listen to my safeguarding concerns, and are trying to stop me from having my children more because I don't and communicate enough with my ex, even though I've stated I only communicate when it's to do with the children
hi. perhaps you can keep eye on kids school attendance. if staff notice anything unusual or signs of neglect, they would have duty to inform children services. you can build up a record of evidence, incase you go back to court in future.
@bill337 school attendance has been low have already provided that evidence. Also school contacted social services twice, first because my ex was too drunk to collect the children, we used to live around the corner from the school and she was out of her mind on the living room floor and I had to arrange for my mother to collect the boys as I was in work and wouldn't make it in time and the school wouldn't allow her friends to collect them because of the state she was in which I'm glad of. And the second time they contacted social because she was threatening to commit suicide and again being drunk. Social services are aware of both these incidents and more and are still stating there are no safeguarding concerns. I'm hoping the final hearing will be different but it is a worry because of how social services are siding with the mother over the children
I am sorry to hear this is going on.
My experience with SS was similar, nothing met ‘threshold’ and therefore no concerns.
In the end I used the schools ‘safe guarding’ team - each month reporting on a pdf anything that was a concern with date, time and if necessary a photo. Then when I rang SS to report a concern and was told it ‘didn’t meet threshold’ (my 3 y/o came home with human bite marks), I said that I knew that and that was why I had also been logging concerns over a period of time, with the schools safeguarding team, to demonstrate the pattern of abuse the children were subject to. That was then emergency action was taken! Unannounced visit, house in caos, children hit in front of SS and police, police used powers to remove children to my care and SS supported application for children to live with me.
It’s crazy, but after years of no action, it was only when SS realised there was a historic pattern recorded externally (by school) did they actually act.
id suggest you put together a factual history, dates, times, report references and say to school that you want them to hold the information under ‘child safeguarding’ (not for them to do anything other than acknowledge receipt of the log, explain why and the that you’ll be adding any concerns as and when, ask them to keep an eye on the children).
then the next time something happens, point out the historic record that’s being kept by the school and just hope the right person does the right thing - it’s so frustrating but eventually will be looked at appropriately and won’t be listed as ‘different parenting styles!’
Ensure your concerns are reported to your and the children’s gp.
Stay calm, stay factual and don’t get riled when given lip service.
@struckdumbdaily thank you some good advice there. I will add I have logged everything with the school the school and the police have both privided statements saying the children shouldnt be living with the mother. The problem I have now is it's difficult to provide evidence when her family are protecting her and forcing the children not to say anything or even lie. I've discussed all this with social and their answer is when the children tell me things that it's just hearsay and the children could be lying or being malicious. And social aren't concerned over chronic excessive alcohol test results, in fact they lied saying her test results were significantly lower when in fact as stated by the experts they aren't. She has even made a statement to social which is in writing and in the section 7 that she does not intend to give up alcohol as she enjoys it. Social services just seem to be so against me and not putting the children first. They keep saying that all they do I what's in the best interest of the children, but how can that be when they are clearly stating that the children should live with an alcoholic mother, who has photographic evidence of this, witness statements from multiple mothers of children from the school, her statement are full of inaccuracies which have been proven and what the children have told me when they feel relaxed as the issue is they are forced to not say anything which is heartbreaking to watch how scared they are.... and also there is no room for them due to having to share a bedroom with a 14 year old, but social are happy if she sleeps on a pull out bed on a small landing. And then you have myself or has no history of alcohol abuse I work and have the space, and like I've said before social have stated I am the more stable parent and can provide a better upbringing..... sorry for the rant I just feel at a loss when I don't know what else I can do when all the evidence thats been provided is just thrown aside.
It might be worth considering anonymous whistle blowing.
the pattern sounds easy to predict and if you’ve real concerns on any particular night calling the police with a concern for child’s welfare is an option - they will investigate.
Could be taken as a malicious/vexatious report if your names attached to it (again crazy given gravity of situation) but could be made anonymously by friend, pub, grand parent etc to keep you out of it.
@struckdumbdaily hi thank you again for the reply. I don't want to sound negative, but I have done welfare concerns, and the police attended she was drunk and asleep the children were awake it was at 1 in the morning. Also in the report the report it stated the house had a strong smell of urine and it was filthy. And still social are ignoring this. I even had a police officer attend my home and write a report, which she had sent to social stating how the children should be In my care, but they are still saying they have not concerns. I feel I can't get different evidence it's all there and if it isn't enough then I feel the system has failed. And the problem I have now is they are trying to say the evidence is becoming historic due to some of it being a year ago when the court case started. Even though some of the evidence is recent to prove she's made no changes, she's only trying to manipulate and decieve the system. Like I've said before the entire section 7 was all for her, stating how much she has changes etc, but after every statement the made, the following statement followed " as evidenced through her test results which are significantly lower". And as I've stated before we know have a letter from the experts at the testing company stating they are not they are indeed excessive alcohol levels. So in my opinion the section 7 is void, due to socials only counter argument being based on that test
Yup, been there and it’s terrible for all.
It’s so frustrating that what appears so obviously ‘not in the best interest of the children’ is glossed over by professionals and court.
historic issues are quoted as historic and previously heard…..especially if other party has legal representation and you can even be accused of wasting courts time by repeating them!
Unfortunately it’s only when SS, CAFCASS, School or even Judge cannot ignore patterns any longer that something happens.
keep making records and do report to SS and school any below threshold concerns.
If you know that children are in the care of someone so far gone on alcohol, that the children are at risk, they need to be caught in the act. The only way to do this is by reporting a concern of childs welfare to the police and for them to deal with at the time.
It does not need to be you that reports the concern. Everyone in society has a duty of care. Sooner or later, and hopefully before serious consequence, action will be taken.
so so sorry that you and the children are in this position
@struckdumbdaily thats the other issue I have, I live in a small village, which means everyone knows everyone type of thing. So social and the school have had numerous complaints about my ex, even photographic evidence, and social decided to say in their section 7 that they are all being malicious towards my ex. Even the children themselves have said things and social said they are probably playing one off against the other. I wrote a letter to social about concerns my children had brought to my attention, quite detailed and the one concern the children had told me was they are being forced and screamed at to lie to social, and social even told me themselves they felt the boys were hiding something, but they didn't put that in their section 7. And after I sent this letter there was a written statement by my ex stating that the children had told her they wanted to live with me because of her drinking, and she admonished them and told them the consequences of lying, and she told social and they praised her for this.... it's all in writing. Thank you for the advice and I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I feel I've logged every complain every issue, used all necessary authorities and it doesn't seem enough for social. I can't fault the school or police both have provided statements about their concerns. I don't know how the final hearing is going to end but I'm worried the outcome will be the wrong one, and 100% I know this will be back in court as she hasn't changed at all, my only worry is will the right outcome happen too late
do you have representation in court?
can the school arrange for either an ELSA or counselling for the children?
Also, have the children missed school or are regularly late when with ex?
As a matter of interest, how old are the children?
@Greyo01010 - apologies, I've only just seen this.
Reason I was asking is that I (or more accurately, my children) went through a bad time with their mother, who was an alcoholic. Bear in mind, this happened over 20 years ago, so some things will have changed, an in my case, I hadn't reported anything to social services, and there was no court case going on at the time. My children were, at the time a son of 15, and daughters of 12 and 5. I was aware of some of the circumstances in the mothers home, but I hadn't realised the true extent of how bad it was until I had them all for the summer holidays for a week and a lot of what was happening came out (including some physical abuse). My wife at the time realised that we had to get the children away from my ex-wife and the children couldn't believe that this was even a possibility, but really wanted this to happen, so my wife and I decided that we'd look into the options with a view to discussing it with my ex-wife once the children had gone back after the holiday.
This plan was cut short by a phone call from my daughter, a few days after they went back, where she was obviously extremely distressed and very worried that her mother was going to be violent. I had a quick call to my brother-in-law (a commercial solicitor, but with a good general law knowledge) and realising that social services weren't available at that time of the evening, rang my daughter back and told her to ring the police and when they turned up, under no circumstances was she to let them leave as we believed she would be harmed if they did, and I was going to set off imediately (I lived about 3 hours away) to go and collect them.
After about an hour, on my way up, I got a call from the police - they had entered the house (my daughter had been waiting on the doorstep for them) and seen the state of the house (I had taken photographs of the house when I took the kids back from the week with us - I had been invited in by the children, so I was clear on that one), found the mother in a drunken stupour and had roused her and persuaded her to let them take the girls with them and they were going back to the police with the girls to await my arrival. (My son had elected to stay with his mother - he had just got into the sixth form college and wanted to go - though he chose to move into supported accomodation in the area a couple of weeks later, spending every weekend with me after that).
The police going in was the vital step in my case - their evidence was sent to social services, who opened a case and rapidly closed it again on the condition that the children were not to go back to live with the mother, and their report and the police report meant that the case for removal of the children in court was barely contested, my ex realised she didn't have a chance (though the contact hearings went on for another 5 hearings and £45k of costs)
I would say that your older daughter is getting to the age where she could contact the police if she felt she was in any danger, so you possibly need to tell her that this is an option, but she can't use it if she's simply had an argument.
Hope that helps in some way.
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