Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:
Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.
Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.
If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help
Hi,
Two years ago myself and my ex agreed to a contact order meaning she had to unwillingly give me more time with my daughter. This contact order went to court and was agreed as this was part of an enforcement of a previous contact order she had breached. As part of this current contact order, she had a caveat put in there to say that no further applications could be made to the court until 2018 without leave of the court. We thought she had learnt her lesson after breaching the order the first time around however over the past 6 months, we have gone back to old ways.
She has breached the order on many occasions and is using my daughter as a weapon against me; i.e. if the ex doesn't agree with something she says 'it's your daughter's choice' and, when I say that i'd like to speak to my daughter about it first I am met with 'there is nothing to discuss'.
In short, 3 weeks ago we dropped my daughter off for panto rehearsal and she was supposed to return after 2.5hrs. She never did. The mother took it upon herself not to return my daughter all because I would not reply to an email her and her husband sent requesting for my daughter to be returned at 6pm instead of 645pm. Now, I have said verbally that we will always try to be earlier however leaving it 645pm gives us some flexibility if required and we can always let them know if we're running a bit behind. Not good enough for them so they took it upon themselves to just not bring her back.Their reasoning for this is that it gives them time to settle her before bed as 'since i left the family home' (6yrs ago) they have always struggled. I find this strange as I NEVER have any problem settling my daughter to sleep. Interestingly they e-mailed the other day asking if it would be better for us not to collect my daughter after dance next Sunday as rehearsal finishes at 330pm; which almost admits their wrongdoing the previous weekend. Why ask for permission now?! So thats breach 1. Breach 2; Additional Christmas contact should have been agreed by mid-November; still no communication even though I e-mailed requesting this toward the end of October.
There are other breaches going back into this year but I wont get into that but, one last thing is.....we did; after talking to my daughter and going through all the details book a holiday to Dubai next Summer. All of sudden I receive an e-mail a couple of days ago saying that my daughter is distraught about going and they had all looked up where it was not realising it is so close to Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia calling them 'war torn and harboring ISIS countries'. They say that my daughter all of a sudden doesn't wish to go and they are her words not theirs....apparently. They believe that there are more suitable places in the world to take a child rather than somewhere that the Islamic faith 'has to be adhered to'. They're not well traveled; I've been to Dubai and its one of the safest countries I know and for my daughter it would be the holiday of a lifetime with what you can do out there. Besides, being exposed to a different culture can only be beneficial but having to adhere to an Islamic faith only applies to adults, not children.
In summary I guess what i'm asking for is; do I go ahead and apply for another enforcement of the current order and a variation to tighten it up? Or am i kind of doomed and will she forever play me and my Mrs like puppets? She enjoys playing the control game; and yet accuses me of being controlling bla bla bla when in actual fact I dont want any contact with her at all. I want the piece of paper to do the talking but she cant help but get involved! If we send an email i.e. asking for the additional Xmas contact, she/they wont reply and yet they want replies to their emails within hours!
HELP!!!
Hi there
It's always going to be difficult, with or without going back to court in my opinion... no court order can stop her behaviour unfortunately. Perhaps a formal letter to remind the mother that she is currently in breach of the order, that unless she adheres to the existing order and agrees the Christmas schedule, you will not hesitate to return it to court for enforcement.
It might be that you'll have to return to court for a Specific Issue Order to take your child away, if she is refusing to allow it, but it looks like she has put fear about Dubai into your child's head, youll have to talk to your daughter about it and reassure her. Dubai is an upmarket holiday destination and I would imagine the Foreign Office website will say that it's safe to travel there, so I would use that kind of information to negotiate with the mother.
All courts expect there to be a certain amount of flexibility between parents, as children grow and become more independent, understandably this can't be written into an order, but making up any time lost can be.
Best of luck
Hi,
I've tried reminding her of the consequences and repercussions that come with not adhering to the order; all falls on deaf ears. Unfortunately she seems to think that she 'is' the law!
Sounds like I will need to make 3 seperate applications in that case; Specific Order Issue to cover Dubai holiday and the mother letting our daughter go, an application to vary the order as its far too loose; i.e. contact to be agreed by this date.....never happens. Better I think to stipulate in the order which weeks of the holidays so I know where I stand year on year, without needing to wait on confirmation from her, and an application for Enforcement of the current order listing various breaches both recent and beyond. The amount of contact that has been cancelled because my daughter has not been well (like a cold or a sprained ankle) and the mother says 'she wants to stay at home'. Obviously when I ring to speak to my daughter she is being monitored by the mother, so she will only say what the mother has already primed her with or what she wants to hear.......I really do hate all of this and it is becoming all the more controlling and manipulative as time goes on......
Hi,
I've tried reminding her of the consequences and repercussions that come with not adhering to the order; all falls on deaf ears. Unfortunately she seems to think that she 'is' the law!
Sounds like I will need to make 3 seperate applications in that case; Specific Order Issue to cover Dubai holiday and the mother letting our daughter go, an application to vary the order as its far too loose; i.e. contact to be agreed by this date.....never happens. Better I think to stipulate in the order which weeks of the holidays so I know where I stand year on year, without needing to wait on confirmation from her, and an application for Enforcement of the current order listing various breaches both recent and beyond. The amount of contact that has been cancelled because my daughter has not been well (like a cold or a sprained ankle) and the mother says 'she wants to stay at home'. Obviously when I ring to speak to my daughter she is being monitored by the mother, so she will only say what the mother has already primed her with or what she wants to hear.......I really do hate all of this and it is becoming all the more controlling and manipulative as time goes on......
What about a solicitors letter? Might she take notice if it has a more official tone?
It sounds to me that when you applied for enforcement a couple of years ago, you weren't given an enforcement order, but an amended contact order... Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Because of the caveat concerning not making applications until 2018, you may need to ask for permission to make an application, which I think is done with form C2... Although I have no experience of this, so I would suggest you seek some clarification; the court should be able to advise you on what form you may require to do get permission.
The most pressing problem is Christmas, although she hasn't responded to you yet, she isn't technically in breach, but if you feel she has breached multiple times, you could go with enforcement on the strength of that, citing the other breaches and the situation concerning Christmas. You would have to make an urgent application and the best way to get the urgency across is to attend the court office in person, with your forms and speak to them about getting a quick hearing.
In my opinion, going with an urgent SIO and variation would be better, you could then request that arrangements for Christmas are dealt with urgently, the court having more time to deal with the variation in the New Year, unless the mother agrees at the first hearing, in which case it could theoretically be dealt with all at once. Again I would advise going to the court in person to submit the forms, to urge a quick hearing before Christmas.
All the best
Hi,
I've tried the solicitor's thing for years; and to be honest £15k later, I'm not convinced i'm MUCH better off for it. Yes I have a 'better' contact order after I had to enforce it the first time around, but I believe it was actually HER solicitor in court when i did this (I represented myself) that advised her that in order for her not to get into any trouble, that she would need to give me more contact. Her solicitor even said to me; I will never forget 'She is a changed woman and has moved on'; yeah right! So you're correct; amended contact order; it was actually never enforced.
Re 2018 application; its only a month away. I'm hoping to wait until then to make the application so it wont require the court's permission. Also, she has enough time between now and then to make more mistakes and tarnish her CV. At the same time i'm hoping the Christmas contact I currently have confirmed in the order i.e. Xmas Eve and Day, wont be ruined. The only thing that is outstanding on her part is additional contact between Xmas and New Year.
We'll see what happens. I really appreciate all the advice.
Welcome to the DAD.info forum.
We don’t like to set ‘rules’, but to make sure that you and the other dads are kept safe, we have some requests. When engaging with the forum, please be aware of the following:
- The forum is not moderated 24 hours per day.
- Many of the moderators do so on a voluntary basis. Whilst they may be able to provide some guidance, advice or support, they may not be able to deal with specifics.
- We are not an emergency crisis service so if you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call emergency services.
- If you are concerned about the safety of a child, please click here to find the support you can get for them (link to new page)
- If you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123. They are open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.
We hope you find this forum a supportive environment and thank you for joining us.