[Solved] Question on registration/parental responsibility

Hi Joe,

It's great that you and your daughters mother are getting on well.

I would urge you to think carefully about signing your rights away as you never know what lies in the future. The fact that she is not prepared to accept your written assurances, I find disconcerting to be honest.

She should be aware that its no easy matter to get residency of a child, even when there are serious safeguarding issues. Realistically if she is a good mother there's absolutely no chance that any challenge for custody would succeed. This is more about maintaining absolute and incontestable control.

If you are sure this is what you want too then I would seek the advice of a solicitor to get some kind of document drawn up and then signed and witnessed. I would suggest that there be certain exceptions to this that are included in the document, for instance if the mother were to pass away, or marry....you too would want assurances that your position is protected in the event of such situations.

I agree with NJ - it may be worth looking at it the other way, there is nothing to stop you to applying to court to get PR, and it would almost certainly be granted. If you explain that to your ex, but the fact that you haven't done this would lead her to the fact that you don't want to go to court, and that because of the relationship as it is, not only do you not want to upset that, but that you probably wouldn't win anyway as she is obviously being a good mother, there is nothing for her to fear from granting you PR

Hi mate,

When was your child born? As i know a lot about this and Parental Responsibility. I would not sign your rights away, as this could lead to your ex beginning a new relationship and marriage etc, then she would be able to apply to the Courts for the new fella to have PR instead of you, which can lead to your child being adopted without your consent, as you would have no say in the matter.

Make sure you get PR and its very easy by way of registration or re-registration of the Birth Certificate. To clarify if your child was born after DECEMBER 2003 and you are named as the natural father on the BC from then on then this will automatically give you PR to your child.

If your child was born before DECEMBER 2003 and you were not named on the Birth Certificate you can apply for a RE-registration to have your details added as the natural father, and then this will automatically give you PR.

It sounds to me like your ex is up to something, be very careful. As any mother would want the natural father to have PR for the safety of the child, and if anything ever happened to the mother, your child could go into care as the local authority would take PR for your child instead of you.

Let me know your situation bud and I can help you

All the advice you have had is brilliant, most of all you must not sign your rights away. Basically at the end of the day whether or not she put your name on the birth certificate, if things went wrong you would be entitled to make an Application to the Court, so asking you to sign any sort of agreement is so wrong.

Sorry bud forgot to mention there is such a thing called PROHIBITED STEPS ORDERS that can be placed on Parental Responsibility.
Should you want to bar some of your rights to help your ex feel more at ease, then you could for example state that you would not take custody of your child, then this would be placed on your rights......etc.

however be extremely careful as to get these back you would have to prove to the Court why you now would like the rights back and why you gave them up in the first place, you may not get all your rights back, and this would be very costly.

To be honest what your being asked to do is not necessary. A natural father is entitled to all rights and the courts would not take your rights away unless for extreme reasons ie SEXUAL ABUSE and MURDER. So for a father to bar his rights in his own right is not normal and not needed. It sounds like the mother has another motive that you are not yet aware of, so do not do anything until you understand the legal consequences as there are many.

You need to see a solicitor now before your tricked and you will wish you had done this, as doing it later will cost dearly.

Hope this is relevant and helps.Keep in touch

Thanks for some great and informative replies everyone. Shaun as to the questions you asked, my daughter is 2, she was born in January 2011.

I'm aware of the fact that I could apply for and get PR with a very good chance of success, as acts says the reason I don't, or haven't yet is because I don't want to upset the status quo too much. As it is I get good access, more than I ever would through the courts and I'm kept updated with all her progress and doctors appointments. I just think that the more I force in theory will mean the less I have in practice.

I appreciate the advice given about not signing rights away and believe me I'm in no hurry to. I just want to be realistic about the situation, which is to say I know I'm not going to contest her decisions about where our daughter goes to school or what medical care she's given etc because she's already shown herself to be very good at those things. I feel I can give her the assurances she's asked for because of that.

I am concerned about her one day giving PR to another guy or even someone else adopting my daughter, I guess that's one reason why this is so urgent to me now. Short of going to a solicitor is there any agreement I can complete with her that will fit the bill of what she's after?

...The only agreement that I know of would be one drawn up by a solicitor into a legally binding agreement. In this you would agree to her demands but you would also have demands, namely that she will agree to sign a Parental Responsibility Agreement forthwith and that she will not support any future application for PR or Adoption by any partner/husband.

I still think its wrong though, but its entirely your call and I respect your right to do so.

I am wary, I can understand her wanting some assurances. She hasn't asked for it to be a legally binding agreement to be fair but its not the first time she has dragged her feet over this.

The fact that we're on good terms at the moment is what makes me want to try and accommodate her here. If she was making it difficult for me to see my daughter, as she easily could then I wouldn't hesitate to go down the PR route, but as things are I don't know how to handle this without giving her what she's asking for.

You need PR .....God forbid anything should happen to your ex but say she is killed in an accident and you didn't have PR, you would have to fight tooth and nail to get custody of her! I know thats an awful thing to contemplate, but it could happen!

I know, it's absolutely crucial. I just don't want to end up losing out on access or information because I had to force the issue. That's why I'm willing to go to great lengths to do things my exes way. What's frustrating is that even though I'm doing that and have been for a long time she just keeps moving the goalposts with this. As I say, I get on well with her and I have nothing but respect for the way she looks after our daughter and I just don't understand why on this issue she seems to want to make things as difficult as possible.

I dunno, I guess you probably hear a lot of those kinds of frustrations on here and it's probably better on here than said to her.

Hello Mate

This PR situation could be very simple. Are you on the birth certificate as the father ???????

If so when was you registered on there and how - with the mother or decleration of parentage by the courts?????

Reply Asap mate.

Best

Shaun

...Have you considered mediation Joe? It's fairly informal and mediators will listen to you both and try and get you to talk through the issues and hopefully reach an agreement. Here's a link

www.nfm.org.uk

I think if she had a better understanding of what PR actual means, having PR does not mean that you would be granted custody more readily, she as the parent with care would still be the parent that is entitled to make the day to day decisions for your child. If she were able to talk openly about her concerns you might be able to reach a compromise that would suit you both. You could have a Memorandum of Understanding drawn up by the Mediator and this may give her the confidence and trust to move forward. If you spoke to her about the mediation service and the fact that you could get a Memorandum of Understanding drawn up, it might encourage her to attend....it's a good starting point and absolutely non threatening.

If you are on a low wage or benefits you will be entitled to legal aid for mediation too. Here's a link to check this

www.gov.uk/check-legal-aid

Shaun - No, I'm not, that's the issue that she and I are trying to sort out at the moment. As I understand it, if I were on the birth certificate then I would have PR too wouldn't I?

NJ - I suggested mediation to her a couple of years ago and she wasn't receptive. I must admit that I hadn't considered it recently. It might be up her street because it wouldn't force her to do anything straight away and it might get her what she wants in terms of some written assurances. How expensive is it to go into? Thanks for your help.

If you're not eligible for legal aid then you are looking at a rough figure of £90 - £120 per session. I feel though that you would only need a couple of sessions to get an agreement....there aren't complex problems as such, it's more about building her confidence.

Hello Mate

Right. Got some REALLY IMPORTANT legal advice for you as i have just gone through this my self and birth certificate updates to include names are very law pacific to get PR.

1. If you re-register the birth certificate with out the mothers statutory declaration stating you are the father - YOU WILL NOT GET PR - even if you are named on the BC as the father - This is because this way is normally by a court decleration of parentage and the re-registration states on the BC this is done under SECTION 14A of the births and deaths act 1953 - YOU DO NOT WANT THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME AND NOW I CANNOT CHANGE IT AND MOTHER IS LAUGHING.

THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED!!!!!!

2. THE ONLY WAY TO GET PR IS WITH THE MOTHER STATUTORY DECLARATION STATING YOU ARE THE FATHER AND YOU WILL BOTH NEED TO FILL IN AND SIGN A (GRO 185 FORM) WHICH YOU CAN RING UP AND GET FROM THE REGISTRATION OFFICE - THIS KIND OF RE-REGISTRATION IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 10A OF THE BIRTHS AND DEATHS REGISTRATION ACT 1953.

3. IF YOU WERE MARRIED AT THE TIME THE CHILD WAS BORN YOU AUTOMATICALLY HAVE PR ALSO.

I am guessing that mother will not consent or agree to having you named on the BC. Please do not take offence BUT are you certain you are the father as some thing does not sound right here ?

This may not relevant but if you have any suspicion about being the father i have ways to help find out by way of genetics.

Come back with more and i will help you mate 🙂

MY STRONGEST ADVICE IS DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS CONFIDENCE RUBBISH ON HERE - YOU NEED PR AND YOU ARE MORE THAN ENTITLED TO IT IF YOU ARE THE FATHER. - IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PR YOU ARE NOT EVEN CLASSED BY LAW AS A NATURAL FATHER AND ARE TREATED LIKE A NON RELATED PERSON.

Shaun, with the greatest respect you are wrong. The mothers consent is not needed if a father applies to the court for PR, this is done with form C1 and there are quite a few forum members that have taken this course of action successfully.

YES YOU ARE RIGHT IF YOU TAKE HER TO COURT THEN THE COURT CAN ORDER PR THROUGH THE C1 FORM

BUT YOU DO NOT NEED TO GO TO COURT TO GET PR IF YOU GET MOTHER TO SIGN A STATUARY DECELERATION FORM STATING YOU ARE THE FATHER THEN THE RE-REGISTRATION WILL AUTOMATICALLY GIVE YOU PR WITH OUT GOING TO COURT AND ANY COSTS.

YOU MUST HAVE HER DECELERATION SIGNED AND WITNESSED BY A SOLICITOR, COMMISSIONER OR JUDGE.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@government/documents/digitalasset/dg_176555.pdf

He is the form for GRO 185 read Section 7 Declaration about PR and how it is obtained automatically after reregistration.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_176228.pdf

This is the Statutory Declaration mother fills in.

Together they create PR without filling with Court IF mother is willing.

Job Done

...thats what we've been discussing, the possibility of reaching agreement so that a PR agreement can be implemented, signed, witnessed and rubber stamped at court. She needs some reassurance that Joe will not try and apply for Residency... and Joe feels that because they have a fairly good relationship as parents and he has a fair amount of contact with his daughter, he wants to navigate a way forward that doesn't rock the boat too much.

if you have a good relationship with the mother, i cant understand why she would not trust you with pr. the child is both your responsibility and pr makes this legally so.

confidence is not a reasonable excuse. pr is very important.

you can do the re-registration and then sign with a solicitor that you will not have residence and sign to say you are happy to have prohibited steps order placed on the pr as an attachment. i would strongly recommend you have all pr, other wise you may cause your self future court issues it situations between you and the mother change opinions.

Shaun, I appreciate your help there, but the confidence stuff is important. As I'm sure you well know, sometimes with these things you can be as in the right as you want and it won't get you anywhere. You're right, as my daughter's father I should have PR, its crucial and its ridiculous that I don't have it.

But if I throw legal action at my ex I might gain PR in theory but I could lose so much more in practice - the good access, the updates on how my daughter is doing with the doctors, being invited down to her nursery to hear how she's doing, all that sort of thing - it could all go out the window.

What NJ is saying about building my ex's confidence up is exactly what I've been trying to do. It's frustrating but its the right way to get this done, I'm absolutely convinced of it. I think my next step will be as NJ suggests, to go to a mediation service and investigate getting legal aid for that. I think my ex is quite likely to go for it as it will still feel like she's in control. I think it could get the result I want without it costing a bomb and damaging my access to my daughter, and if it doesn't then the worse resorts are still there for me.