[Solved] PR and consultation on schooling

Hi FM

It's a tricky one really. Having PR gives you means you can contribute to the decision making etc, but it doesn't give you the right to override her decision. The problem you have is that if you can't come to an agreement, then the only way to sort it out is to let the court decide, and if she put up an argument that it's far more inconvenient for her to take your son to the better school, and that the school she has chosen is of an acceptable standard, then a court could quite feasibly agree with your ex, as they do have to look at the practicalities of the situation if your ex is responsible for day-to-day care.

Ultimately, you only really have two options (well three, if you include doing nothing), either you try to negotiate and reason with your ex to get her to agree to get your son into the better school, or go back to court and run the risk that a court may agree with your ex. If there is anything you can do to give a little in some other area in order to persuade your ex to go for the better school, that may be the best way to go.

Even if you went for shared residency, someone is going to have to have the final say in any decision making, and you'd have to have this included in any order, or run the risk of having to go back to court over every disagreement.

I'm trying to sweeten the deal ACTD. I'm scheduled to have my son throughout Christmas, but have suggested that, as it's his little sister's first Christmas, it would be nice for all of them to be together on Christmas Eve and Christmas morning. I did the same thing last year and it seemed to contribute to a change in attitude on her part and resulted in a more amicable settlement of our dispute...

... I'd like to think that we can resolve this between us, however she knows I have PR and I feel disappointed that she hasn't bothered to consult me. There really isn't an issue with distance. I've looked at her route on Google Maps and it would maybe add a further 5-10 minutes onto her walk to work? I would also be picking him up and dropping him off twice a week and she could also keep her daughter in the same nursery, so it's not really going to be an inconvenience.

I know it may appear that I'm over reacting, but having worked extensively over the years with education and youth services, I know why these decisions are so important to the future development of our children. I'd fancy my chances in court to be honest, largely because of the 'experts' I could ask to support my argument. But I want to avoid the courts and the unpleasantness that comes with that course of action. All I want is to do right by my son and ensure that he gets the best possible start in life. Isn't that what we all want?

Hi FM,

I don't think you are over-reacting at all, if I was in your position, I'd be thinking exactly the same thing, as would any good father. As you say, you are already trying gentle persuasion, this is definitely the best option, and perhaps, if you can get her wavering, if you offer to do all the work to get him (and his sister) in, that might help.

The experts you can call may help if you get to court, but because they are likely to be people you know, the courts may take a view that they are supporting you personally rather than necessarily giving unbiased opinions - it may not happen, but it's something you need to be cautious of - courts can sometimes come to a conclusion which defies logic, it's never cut and dried.

Hi,

actd is right, if parents (who have PR) cannot agree on the place of education and provided your Son hasn't actually started there then you can request the Courts to make an Order regarding this. I would be aware however that i know Mediation can and does get used to resolve these differences.

Ultimately, if what you are saying is:

Mother:
School with Good Inspection Report that is local

You: School with Outstanding, comes highly recommended, is near to her place of work and you can support this

I honestly think an Order may come into your favour. The old chestnut in this instance may be: "Your sons friends all go to [Mothers chosen School], therefore his interests would be near fully considered"... thats pretty much the only thing i believe she could/can say regarding this.

Good idea to keep emailing etc, and i would consider raising this issue with your ex after Christmas. 🙂

Thanks guys!

My suggestion that she has my son over Christmas Eve/Morning clearly went down well. I had quite a positive email discussion with her about schools in the area. She now seems to accept that the 'Outstanding' school should be our number one priority, but this could also be something that she's just paying lip service to until after we get Christmas out of the way...

... I've asked her directly about what I can do to expidite the process; does she need help with the forms, etc? I've also suggested that I could ask one or two people to put in a good word with the headteacher about securing a place for my son, which feels like a more positive use of my resources than asking them to provide their opinions at a court hearing!

Time will tell, but I think I may have got a result here:)

FM

Excellent result so far.

A little bit of an update. I've been communicating with my ex about primary schools, but she is being quite evasive about a number of issues. I originally emailed her in April and told her that we should really look to agree on schooling ahead of the enrolment window, which is 1 Nov '11 to 15 Jan '12 for a September '12 start. The reasoning behind this was that if we couldn't agree, we had time to resolve our differences in mediation or, worse case scenario, the courts.

My ex told me about two schools; a 'community' school that had a 'good' Ofsted report and a C of E school that had an outstanding Ofsted report. The latter was a little further away, but not by much. I was satisfied with this information and told her that I'd like our son to attend the best school in the area. She agreed and said that the C of E school should be our first choice.

She also stated that she'd heard negative things about the community school and mentioned a third Catholic school that also had a good Ofsted report. Having looked at the report I noticed that whilst it had a 'good' overall grade, it did score lower than the community school in various sections of the report. I reiterated my desire to put him in the best school possible and asked her again what we needed to do next.

She's now saying that she wants our son to go to a faith school, which is news to me! This leaves us with the C of E school as first choice and the Catholic school as the second choice and the community school as third choice, even though it's the second best school in the area. Our son hasn't been baptised, so he isn't of any denomination and I'm unsure whether he can attend either faith school.

I suspect that she has already made the application, which is why she's ignoring the 'what do we do now' question. I also have a huge problem with the new school, as I would prefer that our son not be part of the catholic schooling system. I am a lapsed catholic. I was educated in the catholic school system and I hated every moment of it. I can give dozens of reasons why I'm opposed to it, but I think I only need provide this one. Whilst at secondary school a rumour circulated that one of the local priests had abused one of our classmates. The priest left for another diocese under a cloud and the school came down heavily on anyone that repeated or discussed the rumour - and by that I mean they were beaten and threatened with expulsion. Fast forward 15 years and the priest in question made the national headlines as he was jailed for abusing young boys over a ten year period. You don't have to be a member of MENSA to be able to join the dots up and conclude that the whole thing had been hushed up. As a consequence I have no faith in the catholic schooling system.

I feel that my ex has paid lip service to my queries and I have only just been made aware of the catholic school option. My ex knows my feelings about this and I suspect she's manipulated the flow of information until it's virtually too late to do anything about it!

In addition to this my little boy asked me last night why I didn't go to his nursery concert????? My ex hadn't told me about it or invited me. He looked gutted and I'm really angry about it, because I don't ever want him to feel that I'm not interested in him. It's no secret that I don't have a good relationship with the nursery, because of the way that their negligence contributed to his accident and my subsequent complaint to Ofsted resulted in the manager receiving a written warning!

The deadline for submissions is 15th Jan '12 and my understanding is that you can ammend an on-line application up until that date. I don't really want to argue with her so close to Christmas, because she can prevent contact. What can I do? I think I need to remind her about Parental Responsibility. Any suggestions about phrasing this in an authoritive way without being confrontational?

FM '70

Hi FM70,

Again its a difficult predicament to be in.

I would say you are right until holding for Christmas to be passed.

You really need to corner your ex on this one imo. You are right to state that you are the person with PR. In fact i would also call this school which your ex is thinking about sending your son... just to see if an application has been submitted there. If so you would be very welcome to challenge the application as you have the evidence to prove you have not been consulted and feel that a better school in all aspects is around the corner. Its difficult for me and i'm sure anyone to actually suggest as to what is best to do regarding the Courts route. One thing to remember is that places may be limited (thus acting sooner would be beneficial), schools may refuse acceptance based on primary catchment and so on.

If Court is an option to go down advice can be given... however i would hope your ex would inform you of this... but going off the Christmas play... there is a strong possibility that she won't..

Just found out that we managed to get our son into our second choice school. Our first choice was a CofE school with an outstanding Ofsted report, but our second choice does have a good Ofsted report and is one of the better schools in the area by a looooooong way.

Considering that our son isn't CofE, I thought our first choice was something of a longshot. Given the effort involved in getting my ex to actually put our second choice school down as one of his options, I think getting him in there may be something of a result...

... when I told her that I was satisfied with this school's Ofsted report and that I was happy for our son to attend, do you know what she said? She'd never even looked at the Ofsted reports!!!!! Unbelievable!!!

Incredible indeed! *shakes head*

At least you've got a good result, nice on FM!