[Solved] Poisoning our child and looking for help.

All I can say is speak to a child therapist yourself about what is happening they can be helpful.I have done so myself in the past and will be again this week.

Thanks for your reply. Where did you find one, I've tried "child friendly" mediators but as my ex doesn't support me on this issue, or any issue for that matter, they have been no help?

Hi there

This is just so sad... It's called Parental Alienation and its more common than you think and is slowly becoming recognised in the family courts. Here's a link to an acknowledged expert in this field, her name is Karen Woodall and she runs the separated families clinic, as well as writing books. The link is to her blog where you will find information about this.

www.karenwoodall.wordpress.com

She can be reached by email at

Clinic@separatedfamilies.org.uk

It might be worth sending her an email and asking for some advice.

Does anyone know of a way of contacting the author of that Blog, I can't see anything on the website?

clinic@separatedfamilies.org.uk

she is pretty switched on but very expensive

If you contact her by email she will most likely reply and will offer advice which will be free....if you choose to attend the clinics she runs, or ask for her to be an expert in court, that would be expensive i think. She has written a couple of books which you may find helpful.

Here's a link to one of her articles

www.karenwoodall.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/not-in-the-best-interests-of-the-child-attachment-disorder-arising-from-upholding-the-childs-decision-to-reject-a-parent-after-separation/

Sorry, thanks for the email address. I was trying to view the thread on my phone and it didnt display properly so I could see the address.

Has anyone managed to get anywhere in Court with this issue?

ive seen a few success stories and psychological assesments are pretty normal these days after some case law said they should try everything to promote contact .....in most cases. The problem is getting the courts to believe that its happening and not just the childs wishes. one warning is the cost of experts can be very high and try get ur child represented but that may be tough to do as well.

Thanks for your reply. What do you mean by trying to get my child represented?
I have no idea how to get the Court to accept that this is down to the mother poisoning his mind, I've tried that email address, now can only keep my fingers crossed.

the problem with Karen apart from the expense is that she wont get involved before the courts order it because it would effect her ability to be neutral and unbiased. She does workshops that are available but just for the parent. the way that u can show the court is by recording the relevant details of the behaviour. At 13 thee isn't many judges who will override what the child expresses as there wishes and feelings and I think that it would be easy for mum to say that they are genuine. It is possible for them to represent themselves or be represented.
Its also possible that u don't understand the behaviour associated with separation.
The is emotional detachment that means that when they are apart from u they will detach their emotions so that they avoid feeling sad. they will almost certainly comply with the mums feelings for now anyway but this can back fire later on when they realise whats she did to your relationships.
There are a lot of books and info on pA. divorce poison. Il paste in an excert that u may find interesting.
It may be worth considering that mum isn't intentionally doing this and that it is subconscious and although she may be pleased with thye results if it happened naturally she may still be decent enough to consider it wrong of her to have effected the kids that way or smart enough to realise the dangers of getting that result. Very often later in life the child finds out the truth and resents the alienator.
It may be possible to get progress by making her and the kids aware of what pa is and in a non confrontational manner.
U could explain to the children how pa works and to mum who may or may not agree that it has happened and is bad for the children.
Il post that in now and I have more stuff that I will attach later. Good luck

Dr. Gary J. Kneier, Ph.D.
1
LITTLE MARY, THE SWITCHER
Little Mary was now 6 years old, getting bigger everyday. Mommy and Daddy had said
something about a divorce, whatever that is. Mary noticed Mommy and Daddy had a hurt look, like a real bad stomachache or something. Mary checked her own tummy and noticed it didn’t feel too good either. Then Daddy moved to a condo, whatever that is. Everything seemed different. The world just didn’t feel the same anymore. Nothing seemed to be solid.

But Mary knew what to do. It is what she always did whenever there was any kind of trouble. She had felt ever since she was a baby that she was the love in the family. The bigger the trouble, the more Mommy and Daddy loved her, and the more she loved them. Love is great medicine for stomachaches and all sorts of hurts. So Mary knew her job now. She would love Mommy and Daddy with all her might. “Who knows,” she thought, “if I love strong enough maybe Mommy and Daddy will love each other and get back together.”

Then one day after kite flying with Daddy, she was in the back seat of the car on the way back to Mommy’s. She loved kite flying and had had a wonderful day with Daddy. All of a sudden she got the urge to fly one more kite. “Daddy,” she said, “do you still love Mommy?” Daddy did one of those deep breath things, and she thought she heard a gulp. Then Daddy said, in not his regular kite-flying voice, “Well no, sweetheart, Daddy and Mommy don’t love each other anymore. That’s why we are having a divorce.” Mary didn’t like that answer. It sort of hurt, and Daddy didn’t sound too good either. Mary knew what to do: time to show some love. She waited for a few moments for her tummy to settle and her heart to gear up. Then she asked, “Daddy, would you like me to live with you?” Daddy sure wasn’t answering questions as fast as he usually did. Finally Daddy said, “Of course, pumpkin, I would love for you to live with me. I will always be your Daddy. But Mommy and I have decided that you will live at Mommy’s and we will share you.” Mary knew kite flying was over for that day. She noticed they were just passing McDonald’s and she got Daddy to drive through for some fries.

The very next day, Mary was in the back seat of Mommy’s car. They were going shopping. Mary had been a bit cranky since leaving Daddy the evening before. She didn’t like her bath that evening, and she didn’t like what Mommy fixed for breakfast. She complained to Mommy that her feet were hurting from kite flying, because Daddy made her run too much. And the kites wouldn’t fly. They kept crashing. Kite flying was no fun. Then Mary looked out of the car window and saw they were passing McDonald’s. She blurted out what was on her mind. “Mommy, Daddy said he hates you.” Mommy put both hands on the steering wheel and stiffened up, like she was getting ready for an accident. Then the other thing popped into Mary’s mind. “Daddy wants me to live with him,” she said. Mommy seemed quiet for a few moments, and then asked Mary how her sore feet were feeling. When they got to the toy store, Mary did not go anywhere near the kite section. She headed for the dolls. And she thought maybe she needed a new pair of runners.
Dr. Gary J. Kneier, Ph.D.
2
The very next day, Daddy’s lawyer got papers from Mommy’s lawyer. Mommy thought it best Mary not see Daddy quite as much.
Mary kept going back and forth between Mommy and Daddy, but it didn’t feel the same. She noticed they never smiled at each other or talked to each other. She decided that stirring the pot and flying kites were not good ideas. She went back to the one thing she was good at—loving. It wasn’t easy anymore. She had found she couldn’t love Mommy and Daddy at the same time.
She had to take turns. And she had to be careful what she said. She found it was easiest if she just forgot all about Daddy when she was with Mommy, and vice versa. The transfers were a very hard time. Mary dreaded them. It was so hard to change her heart and her love from one to the other. She always looked hopefully for a smile between her parents. But this never happened. They hardly looked at each other, and they spoke little. They smiled only at her, never at each other. When Daddy got her a pet hamster, she named it Smiley.

No one noticed it, not Mommy or Daddy or even Mary. But something was happening to
Mary’s memory. Her memory started to change the same as her heart did, as she went back and forth between her tense, unsmiling parents. When she was with Mommy, she never could remember all the fun she had with Daddy, kite flying, wrestling, going to the zoo and McDonald’s. All she could remember with Mommy was her sore feet, or how her arm got twisted and her hair pulled when wrestling, or how cold the zoo was, and the hot fries burnt her tongue. When she was with Daddy, she couldn’t remember what good times she had with grandma, or how nice it felt when Mommy made her favorite cookies, or did her hair, or tucked her in at night. All she could remember at Daddy’s was when Mommy yelled at her, and grandma said he was mean. (Well, she wasn’t sure grandma actually said that, but it sure felt that way.)
Mary used to love the telephone. She learned to dial when she was only five. Now she hated the phone. Each time it rang, it jolted her, or gave her a little pain in the tummy. Sometimes Mommy and Daddy would talk to friends on the phone and say bad things about each other. This hurt Mary’s heart and confused her. Sometimes it was Mommy or Daddy who called. Mary could tell because the one who answered the phone got tense, stopped smiling, and didn’t say much. Unless it got to be an argument. When the call was for Mary, she didn’t know what to do or what to say. She hadn’t had time to change her heart and her memory. She tried to avoid going on the phone. When she did, she didn’t say much. Mommy and Daddy got more and more tense with each other. Mary knew in her heart that it had to do with her.
One day Mommy explained that the judge, whoever he is, wanted everyone to go see the divorce doctor. The divorce doctor was going to see how Mary was doing, what she was feeling, and then help Mommy and Daddy find the best way to share her. Mary felt something heavy was going on, like when there is a big secret and it is bad.
Dr. Gary J. Kneier, Ph.D.

3
The divorce doctor was nice enough, but Mary was taking no chances. She was careful,
especially when he asked questions about Mommy or Daddy. But he talked about the family differently from everyone else. He seemed to respect both Mommy and Daddy. Most of all, he seemed to know what it was like to be in the middle, to go back and forth, and to have your heart and memory change. He smiled a lot. Mary felt he could understand. After awhile, she was having great talks with him, and found herself actually putting her confusing feelings into words. Most of all, the doctor seemed to know what Mommy and Daddy didn’t know—that her heart and memories actually changed as she went back and forth. And so, when the divorce doctor asked Mary how she did it, how she managed to go back and forth and change her heart, she told him the secret game she had invented. She said, “It is simple. I go end to end.” “End to end?” the doctor asked. “Yeah,” Mary explained, “Like those games they play on television—basketball or football. There are poles at each end. First you play at one end and then you play at the other end. You just switch.” “Switch?” the doctor asked. “Yep,” Mary said, running from one side of the office to the other. “You switch sides.You go back and forth. First one side, one pole, then the other.” “But how do you do it?” asked the doctor. “You mean you change uniforms or something?” “No, silly,” said Mary. “You don’t change clothes till you have already switched sides. You switch in your heart. Nobody can see it. But I can feel it.” Mary put her finger on her heart. “Oh,” said the doctor, “I see. You are a switcher.” “You got that right,” Mary replied, pleased that someone finally seemed to understand. “I see,” said the doctor, “you are a very smart little girl. So tell me, when do you switch?” Mary did not hesitate. “That’s easy, McDonald’s.” “McDonald’s?” puzzled the doctor. “Yep. There’s a McDonald’s right between Mommy’s house and Daddy’s house. I keep my eyes open and when we pass the McDonald’s, my heart starts to switch. By the time I get to the house, it is all done. And I am ready for the other end, the other pole.”

The divorce doctor went on to ask Mary about her memory changing. She hadn’t really been aware of this or thought about it. It was a bit awkward, maybe a little embarrassing, for Mary to talk about this. She was afraid someone would think she had been lying. Mommy and Daddy were always arguing about truth and lies. But the doctor seemed to know it was about memories and feelings really changing, about switching, and not about lying. Mary felt a huge burden leave her when this was understood and put into words.
Mary and the divorce doctor agreed that the end-to-end game, the switching, would not be necessary if Mommy and Daddy could smile at each other, be friendly and nice, and talk to each other.

Gary J. Kneier, Ph.D.

The impact on children of being given the choice to reject a parent after separation.
The Family Courts are often presented with the phenomenon of a child who no longer wishes to see
a parent after separation. This phenomenon, which arises after family separation is one which
presents serious challenges for the courts. Use of instruments such as 'wishes and feelings' reports
by CAFCASS and Social Workers, can lead to an over reliance upon what a child says they would
like to happen after separation. It is this focus upon the child's voice, which can lead some
practitioners to feel that only by upholding the child's stated wishes, are they acting in the child's
best interests.
This article however, explores the way in which, over reliance upon the stated wishes and feelings
of a child can act not to uphold their best interests, but to force upon a terrible burden upon a child,
which is the decision to remove a once loved parent from their lives forever. Children who are given
this responsibility, through reliance upon their stated wishes and feelings are also frequently
burdened with an attachment disorder, which has arisen because of the family separation and
through the actions of the parent with whom they are aligned. This attachment disorder arises from
the fear of the child that to go against the wishes of the parent with whom they live with, may
render them vulnerable to further loss. This creates a dynamic within the child in which they begin
to split their feelings for their now separated parents into all good and all bad. This enables a child
to state, without guilt or remorse, that they no longer wish to see the parent that they now consider
to be their 'bad' parent. In effect it is a coping mechanism which is brought about by the separation
of two loved and internalised figures, in which one figure is now hurting and suffering and the other
is seen as being the cause of this. This causes the child to fuse their own views of the more distant
parent with that of their aligned parent as a way of ensuring their own safety and security with the
parent with whom they are now left.
A child who is in this position is attending not to their own needs but that of the parent with whom
they are aligned. In this way, the 'voice of the child' can be interpreted as expressing what has
happened to the attachment hierarchy in the family system and can be heard as a signal that their
needs for safety and security are not being met.
The Family Separation Clinic: Attachment disorder and children who reject a parent after separation 2013
How children arrive at rejection
There are many reasons why children refuse or resist parenting time with one parent after a family
separation. Resistance or rejection is sometimes called 'alienation' and, whilst the term is still not
often used in the UK, recent judgements have brought about a greater acceptance that this is a
phenomenon that the courts may have to deal with.1
It is essential. when working with children who reject or resist parenting time, to understand why
this has occurred and to differentiate this in as detailed manner as possible in order to bring about
successful interventions2.
This is because cases of 'alienation' are complex and, whilst they may share things in common with
a range of cases within the same category, each case is also unique and has its own indicators which
allow for tailoring of the treatment route.
Cases are analysed in several different ways. All are differentiated into the following categories.
Justified Rejection – in which a child rejects a parent because of something that a parent has done.
This includes different acts by a parent which would reasonably be regarded as being abusive to a
child such as physical harm, emotional harm or psychological harm. It should however, be noted
that even when harm done to a child is fairly severe, a child is unlikely to reject a parent and is more
likely to seek to blame themselves than blame the parent.3
Hybrid or mixed – In which the conflict between the parents and the extreme differences in
parenting and personal ways of being, cause the child to be unable to relate to both parents after
separation.
Pure – In which a parent is engaged in behaviours which are designed to drive a child away from
the other parent, causing a child to join with the parent in rejection and causing the child to display
signs of 'alienation.'
1 EWCA CIV 291 (Re: S) a child. HHJ Bellamy. 'The Concept of alienation as a feature of some high conflict
parental disputes may today be regarded as mainstream.'
2 Bala N -Children resisting post separation contact – a differentiation route for Legal and Mental Health
Professionals – Oxford University Press (New York) 2012
3 Levenkron S – Stolen Tomorrows – (Lions Crown) 2007
The Family Separation Clinic: Attachment disorder and children who reject a parent after separation 2013
Further analysis breaks down cases of Pure Alienation into two further categories -
Pure and conscious alienation – Where a parent is aware of what they are doing and will not stop
it.
Pure and unconscious alienation – Where a parent is unaware of what they are doing and cannot
stop it.
A case of children resisting parenting time starts with understanding the factors that lead to the
family separation in the first place. Analysis of the dynamics that contributed to the breakdown is
important, as is analysis of power and control in the relationship and how this was played out in the
separation. It is the case that in many situations where children become 'alienated' from a parent,
that issues of enmeshment with the parent that they are aligned to are featured.4
Enmeshment takes place when a child is unable to determine their own views and feelings as being
different from that of a parent. A parent can also be enmeshed with a child and be unable to see or
experience their own views and feelings about the other parent from being different to how the child
feels about the other parent.
Parentification is another element which is often present in cases where children reject a parent.
Parentification is the result of the attachment hierarchy collapsing, in such a way that the child is
elevated to the position of being in charge of the family system.5 A child in this position can also be
said to be experiencing 'role reversal' which is an element of Attachment Disorder6, this is when a
child is elevated to the position of caring for a parent emotionally in order to maintain the
attachment relationship.
Alienation in children is the end result of a spectrum experience in which children are
influenced/pressured by one or both parents to align themselves to one or other parent or sometimes
to each parent at the same time. 7
4 Friedlander and Walters – Family Court Review – Vol 48 Pages 98 – 111 2010
5 Gottlieb L Linda – The Parental Alienation Syndrome: A Family Systems and Collaborative Systems approach to
amelioration – Charles Thomas (New York) 2012
6 Brisch H K – Treating Attachment Disorders – (The Guilford Press) 2002
7 Knier. G Dr Children Splitting (alienation) from a parent (2011)
The Family Separation Clinic: Attachment disorder and children who reject a parent after separation 2013
Impact on children of rejection of a parent
Alienation proper is often triggered by an event which causes a child to withdraw. This is often
after a long process of difficult 'transitions' to and from parents who are either in conflict with each
other or from one parent who is using high conflict approaches with the other parent. Alienation
causes a child to split off all good memories and feelings about a parent and project all bad
memories and feelings onto that same parent. This allows a child to withdraw from a parent
without having to feel shame or remorse. The longer term outcomes for such children are poor and
are documented by research.8 Children who withdraw from a parent can appear to do well at first
and can seem to find relief from withdrawal. Children who have rejected a parent may seek refuge
in school work or studies, seeking to excel in these, perhaps in order to find relief from the guilt and
shame of having made an awful choice.9
Outcomes over time however, show that children who reject a parent may suffer from low self
esteem, poor relationship skills and ongoing issues around mental health and well being. Studies
demonstrate that in some cases, children may become especially skilled at dealing with infantile
adults, so much so that they are robbed of their right to a childhood.10 As children grow older, they
may be exposed to further demands from the parent that they have aligned themselves with. These
demands may be the result of the family separation process, in which the parent perceives any
independent move by a child as evidence of betrayal. The child, having utilised the coping
mechanism of psychological splitting in order to reject one of their parents, now becomes
vulnerable over the life cycle to repeated efforts to maintain the dysfunctional attachment bonds.
In this regard, all children who are in an alienated position are extremely vulnerable both in
emotional and psychological terms and, by using rejection as a coping mechanism are signalling
that something is wrong in the family system. Children who are displaying the signs of alienation,
may also be showing signs of attachment disorder, the reflexive support for a parent often being
related to 'parentification' in which a child is compelled to take care of a parent. This phenomenon
was also called 'spousification' by Minuchin11 and can create conditions in which the child is
elevated to the top of the family attachment hierarchy12 by a parent and given the choice and the
responsibility for taking care of the parent by rejecting the other. Practitioners who are confronted
8 Baker A Dr – Adult Children of Parental Alienation Syndrome – (2012) Norton: New York
9 Garber B (2011) Parental Alienation and the dynamics of the enmeshed child/parent dyad; adultification,
parentification and infantalisation – Family Court Review 49(2)
10 Boszormenyi-Nagy and Spark (1983) page 22
11Minuchin, S. & Fishman, H. C. (2004). Family Therapy Techniques. Harvard University Press: Cambridge.
12 Kerns and Richardson (2005) Guildford Press
The Family Separation Clinic: Attachment disorder and children who reject a parent after separation 2013
by a child who is displaying signs of alienation, especially where the child is expressing undue
concern for the well being of the aligned parent, should be on the look out for role reversal which is
denoted by parentification and spousification and should be prepared to further assess the family for
evidence elsewhere of the existence of alienation.
Treatment routes for children who reject a parent
Deeper assessment of such families involves interviews with both parents, each of whom must be
asked a series of questions which are designed to determine whether or not blame projection13 is
present. Projection of blame is a common feature of separating couples, but is one which is often
alleviated over time. A parent who remains fixated upon blaming the other parent however, without
being able to accept or acknowledge any responsibility for the current position, is unlikely to be
able to ameliorate a child's fixed views and this fused, dyadic presentation is one which should
arouse concern.
Fixed views from an aligned parent, projection of blame and an insistence that a child is making
their own decisions about a parent are all signs that a child who is displaying the signs of alienation
is trapped in a conflict of loyalty to a parent. Loyalty conflicts develop when children become afraid
to love both of their parents because of pressure being placed upon them.14 Presence of loyalty
conflicts should alert the practitioner to the need for deeper investigation and possible intervention.
Work at the Family Separation Clinic is focused upon the combination of differentiation of
alienation and the delivery of combined treatment routes to liberate children from the problem.
Utilising a combination of family therapy and therapeutic mediation with additional elements of
parenting co-ordination, Hybrid cases are being treated with some success. Pure cases, where
parents have personality disorders are being supported through Therapeutic Bridging Programmes,
which are convened to support a change of residence and where alienation is determined to be Pure
and conscious, suspended residence transfers are being supported with education, parenting coordination
and family systems therapy approaches. All of these combinations of treatments are
designed individually after depth assessment and all are convened in ways that offer the maximum
benefit for the children concerned.
One of the unusual aspects of the delivery of such support is that it is most often located 'in situ',
that is that therapists, mediators and parenting co-ordinators attend at the home of the parents
13Glen O. Gabbard, Long-Term Psychodynamic Psychotherapy (London 2010)
14Retrieved from article by Stahl, M Philip, remarks made at the plenary session of CRC's conference in May, 2001.
The Family Separation Clinic: Attachment disorder and children who reject a parent after separation 2013
involved rather than parties being required to attend for meetings in offices during office hours. A
further element of difference is that alienated children are reintroduced to a rejected parent as
quickly as possible after an intervention begins, thus exposing the child to the feared or hated parent
in a safe and supportive environment with support from practitioners.
Longer term outcomes for children in treatment
Longer term prognosis for children who are re-introduced to once rejected parents is good providing
that both parents are enabled to overcome the rejecting stance in the child and each are able to
encourage and support the child to maintain the rebuilding of the relationship. Where parent is
unable to recognise that the child's rejection is linked to their own feelings about the other parent,
restriction on the relationship between child and that parent may be necessary to liberate the child
from the loyalty conflict. A child who is freed to relate to both parents on a regular basis is unlikely
to suffer any of the known consequences that face children who remain burdened with the
responsibility for rejection over the longer period.