[Solved] Overnight Stay

Hi and welcome.

If you went to court tomorrow, I think because of the age of your son, a court might well agree with your ex and you could end up souring the relationship you have with your ex and she might reduce contact.

Realistically, before you get to court, you will have to try mediation, and if that fails, you then move to court. All of this will take time, so my suggestion would be that rather than embark on that course of action, you try to talk to you ex about the future - perhaps 4 or 5 months ahead to see if she would be prepared to allow overnight stays in the future. If you can succeed in this way, it will make for a much easier time in the future - court really should be an absolute last resort, especially if there is meaningful communication at the moment.

Hi actd,

Thanks for your prompt response. What you have said is something that has been on my mind but i cant seem to find a way forward. I miss my son very much. I have tried to reason with my ex on a number of occasions regarding overnight but she is unwilling to discuss and one day she even said that she will restrict my daytime hours with my son if i don't stop asking her with regards to overnight. What she did say was that he is too young at the moment and when i asked her at what age would she think i'll be able to have him overnight her reply was she doesn't know.

What I am finding difficult to accept is not knowing when i'll be able to have my son stay with me overnight. I am not happy, but i can reluctantly accept, if she was willing to discuss this as you suggest may be if it is possible in 4 - 5 months time or when he turns one.
Mediation will be the next step i hope to explore but my concern is she will refuse given from past experiences and hence why i am exploring the idea of going to court.

As you stated that given his age the courts may agree with my ex, if things don't change i.e. mediation does not work and we can come to a reasonable agreement, at what age would you say I have a better chance?

Thanks in advance.

I think a year old would certainly be reasonable as you have consistent contact at the moment, so it's not that he'll suddenly be away from home with someone he hardly knows.

One more thought - this will cost you, but will still might be cheaper than court possibly, but could you suggest to your ex that you both go to a hotel somewhere on the odd weekend (in separate rooms of course) and that your son sleeps in your room so that he gets used to sleeping with you but with your ex nearby - that might placate your ex. I think, because you still have a moderately amicable relationship with her, it's going to be much better for you if you can work with her rather than fight against her, and hopefully she will see this also and be prepared to give a more than she would if it went to court.

Hi Gaby,
my grandson turned 1 year old earlier this month and whilst my son has been to court to get contact, he also
asked for overnight, which the courts refused due to his age.
However, that said, they did write into the order that the court fully expects overnight contact to happen early to
middle of next year.

Whilst I fully understand your position, you miss your little one dearly and want to have a good and meaningful
relationship with him, you have to see his age.
So long as you can see him regularly you can have bonding time and the more your relationship deepens, the easier
it will become to raise the overnight issue again when he is a little older.
Courts won't readily agree for dads to have babies overnight as they are too small and too reliant on the mother.
But if you have regular contact until he is about a year or so I would ask mum again and if she still raises objections I would suggest mediation.

Take care
Kirsten

Hi Kirsten,

Thanks for sharing the experience of your son, very valuable. As i have mentioned in my previous posts, if i have the knowledge of having my son stay with me overnights when he is about 1 years old then i can bear the pain till then but it is not knowing when i'd be able to have him that i find unbearable. My ex has refused to say when she thinks might be ready for overnights. I would not take the case to court if my probability of getting overnight is slim because I am certain the relationship with my ex would also turn sour and she would probably do or act in such a manner to make it difficult for me to have a meaningful relationship with my son.

One thing i might add is this; i have been researching a lot on why overnight stay is seeing as detrimental to the child's development and what i find is not conclusive. I myself, if the science is conclusive, would happily accept the verdict because at the end of the day i want my son's well-being to be safeguarded. The focus should be on the child and not the parents. However, what i find in research material and find it very convincing is the opposite to the notion that overnight stays from the main caregiver is detrimental to the child's well-being. The report i quoted in my first post, SOCIAL SCIENCE AND PARENTING PLANS FOR CHILDREN BY RICHARD A. WARSHAK, with the conclusions and recommendations of the report endorsed by 110 prominent researchers and practitioners highlights this very well.

To quote one statement from the report; "A broad consensus of accomplished researchers and practitioners agree that, in normal
circumstances, the evidence supports shared residential arrangements for children under 4 years of age whose parents live apart from each other. Because of the well-documented vulnerability of father– child relationships among never-married and divorced parents, the studies that identify overnights as a protective factor associated with increased father commitment to child rearing and reduced incidence of father drop-out, and the absence of studies that demonstrate any net risk of overnights, policymakers and decision makers should recognize that depriving young children of overnights with their fathers could compromise the quality of developing father-child relationships. Sufficient evidence does not exist to support postponing the introduction of regular and frequent involvement, including overnights, of both
parents with their babies and toddlers. The theoretical and practical considerations favoring overnights for most young children are more compelling than concerns that overnights might jeopardize children’s development."

When i read such researches, to which i completely agree, i find it difficult to just wait until my son is older to have the father-son bond knowing that the times lost might have grave consequences in the future for the development of my son as well as the bond that must be established early if it is to be lasting and meaningful.

Thanks again to all and any comments and views from other peoples views and experience is much appreciated.

Hi Gaby, I can identify your pain albeit our circumstances are slightly different in age terms but the same in that we both have difficulty with the mother refusing to commit to when my child can stay with me overnight.

I found your information quoted about how fathers having children overnight enhances the relationship really useful, thank you. I am at court in a few days. Essentially my viewpoint in court was going to be the same in that clearly regular overnight bonding shows a willingness from the father, a good starting point clearly and ultimately is in the childs best interests.

Its so ironic that in a society full of absent fathers who don't actually care that those of us who do have such a battle on our hands to enhance our childrens lives which would be enriched by our presence have to fight so hard.

Im in court soon to try and get my child overnight, a child with whom I have spent until recently every night of their 4 years. Post split, the mother will not allow him to stay overnight with me as hes 'to young'.

I have suffered the heartache that you endure at the moment and can relate totally to your point that you could endure it a little easier if you had some form of timetable to work towards. My situation replicates yours in that the mother simply refuses to give any suggestion as to when that would be beyond she doesn't know.

I had no choice for my child but to go through the courts and having now somehow managed to sustain hope whilst navigating a creakingly slow system, stand on the cusp of some form of court order I hope.

I would echo Kirstens advice. Take the pressure of yourself just now if you can. I know what its like, this topic consumes my life. I would enjoy the time you have together just now. Its not easy, the true heartbreak of leaving your child after a few solitary hours during which you have watched the clock tick faster than it ever has followed by the hollow feeling of wishing the next visit is a pain I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Try and establish a mind set of its not viable just now but work to the year stage then offer mediation to see if it can be sorted then. if it cant then court might be your only option.

Good luck.

Hey Gaby, I agree with all the advice you've been given and totally sympathise. My partner is currently embroiled in a court case to gain overnight access with his 5 year old child. He jumped through hoops for the last 4 and a half years, tried mediation to no avail, managed to agree a plan of sorts then the mother changed her mind.

The court process has been an awful experience with my partner and ex barely being on speaking terms now, so avoid it if you can.

6 months is quite early to be having overnight visits, especially if your son is still breastfeeding or weaning. Could you agree with the mother that you will talk about this again in another 6 months and in the meantime spend as much time with your son as possible? If you can get her to attend mediation with you, you could discuss the overnights with assistance from a third party but also try to agree on all the issues that are likely to arise? Knowing what my partner has been through, he wishes he had done mediation when his child was small as every issue, even small, has been a mountain to climb.

Wishing all the best to you and your son.

Hi Gaby,

Whilst I agree with you on the principle of overnight contact for little children, my son asked the same question but
as I mentioned before, the courts said no.
As much as you find research in favour of overnight you will find against and to be honest a good relationship with your child doesn't depend on overnight stay at this age.
We would love to have my sons little one stay overnight but he is happy to stay all day, loving the time with his daddy and the wider family.
What also plays a big part here is the mothers attitude to things,my sons ex has stopped being hostile and is pleasant at handovers. The change in the child is amazing,no longer distressed but happy and content.

For what it's worth, don't pressure the mother, have as much contact as you can and raise the topic again when your
little one is a little older.

Take care
Kirsten

I want to say a big thank you to all, especially brokendad, 1626 and Kirsten. It means a lot, and to an extent makes the pain that little bit easier, to hear you guys share your experiences. I am new to this and am sure as mentioned some of you have been in such a predicament/pain for quite a long time and i can only imagine what that must be like.

To brokendad, reading your story, be it very brief, i can not see on what basis the courts can deny you overnight to a child you have been there for 4 years. Somehow, i feel optimistic about your situation. If you've not read the report/research material i listed on my post then i would highly recommend it, especially since you have a court case soon.

To 1626, I hope the outcome of the court case is one that your partner and yourself are striving for. I totally accept your suggestion of mediation as the best way forward and as the first step before going to court.

As a general point, reading everyone's story makes me think that even when the children are at the ages of 4 or 5, the law seems to be still skewed in favor of mothers and i think because mothers know this they use the child as a pawn just out of animosity and not for the interest of the child's well-being. I have had many friends and family tell me that given the age of my son i should be patient with regards to overnight and like i said previously i'd accept that if there was a clear timetable as to when i'd be able to have my son overnight. My worry is this, my ex is not able to give me a timetable now probably so that she can still keep using the excuse "he is too young." I know every case is unique and you can't simply compare but when i hear dads going through so much pain and agony to see their children even when the children are 4/5 years old, i wonder what excuse is used when they are at that age? And what do the courts say?

I know some of you have said i should may be wait until my son is 1 year old but it seems to me even then, as shown by others, it is not clear cut. I am of the opinion that it is never too young for a father to have a meaningful contact, including nights, with your child. It seems to me that the law is lagging way behind with the science and society.

Development of healthy parent-child relationships;

"Children’s relationships with parental figures normally grow from frequent child–parent interactions in a wide variety of contexts, such as holding, stroking, talking, singing, playing, feeding, changing diapers, soothing, placing and removing from the crib, and so forth. Such interactions help parents better understand the children’s needs, and give parents the knowledge to develop and hone parenting skills and behavior to meet their children’s needs. Although some child development theories place more emphasis on genetics, neurobiology, or on environmental factors other than the behavior of parents (such as peers), most professionals agree that a good deal of parenting skill develops from experience and being on the job."

Why overnight with fathers is beneficial to the child as well as the parent-child relationship;

"Overnights help to reduce the tension associated with rushing to return the child, and thus potentially
improve the quality and satisfaction of the contact both for the parent and child. Overnights allow the child
to settle in to the father’s home, which would be more familiar to the child who regularly spends the night in the
home compared with one who has only 1-hr segments in the home (allowing for transportation and preparation for
the return trip)."

"Spending the night allows the father to participate in a wider range of bonding activities, such as engaging in bedtime rituals and comforting the child in the event of nighttime awakenings. An additional advantage of overnights is that in the morning the father can return the child to the daycare; this avoids exposing the child to tensions associated with the parents’ direct contact with each other."

Once again thanks all for sharing your story and wish each and every one of you all the best.
I still crave for more advise/info so please keep posting.

Hey again Gaby

Thanks for your comments regarding my partner's case. Mediation just might help you get somewhere with overnights sooner than a court would allow, it might allow the two of you to build up trust in each other. As I said in the previous post, overnights aside, there are going to be many issues the two of you will have to agree on in the coming years, if you're able to agree on the small things now, the big things might be easier to arrange.

I agree, the system is totally lagging behind. In my partner's case, he wishes he had gone to mediation or started proceedings much earlier, the only reason it's taken so long is that he was trying desperately to keep an amicable relationship with the mother.

I think in brokendad's case, his application is due to his split being quite recent.

In general, if you were making a court application, depending on the circumstances and the judge you get, overnights would usually start between the age of one or two. It sucks.

I know one Dad on here who has had overnights from around the same as your son but this was brokered between him and his ex but she refuses to let the agreement evolve. Everyone's case is different. Mediation can work really well if you're both prepared to make good use of it. IMO the earlier you do it, the less time issues will have had a chance to fester between you.

I tried to paste a link to this thread but no luck so will pm it to you.

Your son is lucky you have his best interests at heart and are taking a measured approach to this. I sincerely wish you all the best with it all.

🙂

Hi 1626,

Thanks a lot for your valuable advice and the link you sent is very very useful, although i must admit I've not read it thoroughly just a quick read. Am sorry but can you expand on IMO, am useless when it comes to acronyms.

Thanks