[Solved] Overnight Contact and Courts

Hi there

It's generally considered that babies are heavily dependant on their mothers, many courts are thoughtful of this and will order contact that is short in duration...a little and often. However, there are no official guidelines and judges opinions vary widely. Mostly the members here have found that even with toddlers a schedule of increasing contact is applied that will see days only contact at first, that is slowly increased over a period of up to a year, culminating in overnight stays.

...I've moved this to the legal eagle section as its likely to get more responses there. This section is really only a place for new member to say hello and introduce themselves.

Hey again Gaby, the link I sent you is a really good indication of what you could expect from a court decision on this matter. Your best bet (and it's compulsory before applying to court anyway) really is mediation. The few dads I know that have had overnights under 12-18 months old have either agreed this arrangement privately or through mediation. The ones I know that have applied through court have not been granted this type of contact at such a young age. Whilst I don't agree with this in principle, it seems to be how it works.

Get in touch with National Family Mediation, you can also call Coram Childrens Legal Centre's helpline for free legal advice or ring around a few local solictors for a free 30 minute consultation, they should be able to confirm the advice you have been given so far.

Best of luck with it all.

Hi all,

1626 tanks again for the link. I had a good read but the reason am asking others with regards to how early overnight can be granted is because one, i have heard that it is possible for overnight to be granted for children under one year old and the second point is quite a lot of research seem to advocate for early contact, including nights, for a healthy parent-child bond to be established. The final point according to the article you sent me, titled A Guide to Contact Arrangements for Children, states, i quote "...by the age of two years, a monthly overnight stay might be possible..."

It pains me to think i'll have to wait that long in order to have my son stay nights with me and i worry deeply the consequences of what this period of separation might bring in the long term from the research i have been reading. This is why, out of desperation, i am trying to see if there are people here who have gained overnight similar to my circumstances or even those refused on the basis that the child is too young.

N.B. Any information with regards to overnight contact will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Hi Gaby,
The only thing I can suggest is that you find some case law and see at what age the courts granted overnight stay with
the NRP.

However, please don't take this the wrong way but have you given any thought to families where the dad
is in the armed forces for example, or works away from home most of the week?
I speak from personal experience here and my children had a great bond with their dad who was often
away for weeks if not months at a time.

My own son will have overnight contact with his son next year, by that time my grandson will be well
over 18 months old....the court did refuse overnight initially because my grandson is too young but put
into the order that it is to happen by next spring/summer.

Perhaps you could try mediation to resolve this ?

Take care
Kirsten

Hi Kirsten,

Thanks for your post. I have given thought to many things regarding the upbringing of a child and the importance of both parents being fully engaged in the process. I have friends and family members who work abroad and only see their children a handful times throughout the year and i respect every family has its own reason/circumstances for doing so and also yes, the children can still have a great bond with their parent. However, I personally wouldn't want a situation where by i see my child a handful times or only be able to see him daytime. Remember also that those friends and family and many more like them i am talking about are doing what they are doing out of their own choice and that is not the case with many separated/divorced fathers who are at the mercy of the law or their ex.

I hear a lot of people say he/she is too young for overnight contact but i still fail to understand how preventing the child from staying with the father safeguards the well-being of the child. Is it purely a genetics question like the one suggested by John Bowlby who's theory of monotropy.

Sometimes certain believes and ideas must be challenged if especially they are likely to cause harm as a result and the case of Bowlby, which is just a theory, is one such case and it has been challenged by many prominent scholars.

Thanks.

I appreciate what you're saying and agree that children benefit from overnight contact even as babies (providing feeding and weaning are not affected) however, the point I was trying to make to you is this - you're highly unlikely (as unfair as it seems) to get a CAO for overnight contact at such a young age. You would have to go to mediation anyway before being allowed to make an application to the courts.

If you went into mediation with an open mind (hopefully you can find a decent mediator) and were able to agree either a schedule for overnights to start or a schedule for when it can be discussed again, say when the child is 9 or 12 months old then you have a better chance of retaining an amicable relationship with the mother.

It's not just overnight contact that you need to be thinking about, it's all the other little niggly issues that can become massive ones and sour the relationship to the point of not being able to agree anything and making a court application.

You've got a golden opportunity to set some solid building blocks with the mother and try to carve out a good relationship with her. As I said before, my partner wishes so much that he had done exactly that 3 or 4 years ago and he wouldn't be at the point he is at now.

I really wish you well with this. As Kirsten says, see if you can find some case law, put this with your research and present these things to your ex in mediation as a court application at the age your child is now is very likely to result in an outcome that doesn't suit you or your son.

Good luck

Hi Gaby,

Agree with everything that's been said so far.
The youngest child involved in my case was 4 when it started - and even at that age the court didn't set out overnight's until after 8 months.
I think the point being made in previous posts is that, if you want overnights at this stage - you're going to have to try and agree it with the ex rather than through the courts... But in any case, I hope you get this sorted out!

I know how much overnight's mean, it makes you feel more like a dad, rather than you're "stepping in and out".
But be assured, although it may be difficult for you, IF overnight or staying contact is not immediately available, you will still be able to build that relationship with your child until you reach that point... and when you get to that point of tucking them up in their bed, all of the effort and work you're putting in will be worth it 🙂 Chin up.

All the best,
BD

Hi Badgerdom,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Just want to clarify one thing...the courts didn't grant you overnight for your 4 years old child until after 8 months later you say so my question is was the reason because the child was too young and my second question is did you make an application to the courts prior for overnight?

Thanks

Hi Gaby, I know the age group is different and doesn't really give you any slant as the ages are slightly different but it was being presented to court in my case that 4 years old was to young to stay with me and the judge wasn't taken in by it at all and I was granted overnight contact immediately.

Unfortunately at the age your talking about, a cautionary approach is applied to the father only it would seem. Lets apply all the caution in the world as regards dad which is fair enough, that's the way it should be if it was applied for both parents :sick:

Personally id say concentrate on your ongoing relationship even if it involves non overnights just now and maybe at about 18 month is a realistic starting point for overnights. That said, its a bit of a lottery, I hate saying that to you mate. I'm so aware of the pain. Ive got very recent experience of court so pm me if you want any answers. I might not have all of them but I can probably tell you the type of thing to expect if you do eventually raise court.

Hi Gaby,

Contact was initially agreed at fortnightly contact centre sessions, and then gradually increased.
Prior to the court hearing there was both overnight and full weekend contact, until contact was ceased by the ex.

Due to the 5 month gap in contact (awaiting court dates etc), the court decided a gradual introduction would be preferred and took us back to "square one". Her age was a factor, along with the fact that contact had not been ongoing for an "extended" period of time. There were concerns about how she would react being away from her mum (her mum played on this also).

We went in asking for weekend contact, increasing to overnight contact after 3 months - instead we had contact centre sessions for 3 months, followed by 3 months of 6 hours every fortnight on a Saturday. Only at the beginning of this month did we get weekend staying contact once every 4 weeks.

Rather unsurprisingly the kids were absolutely fine with us, went to bed with no issues etc, and were reluctant to go home.
Unfortunately, in my experience, everything is done slowly when contact is awarded. So I would definitely ask for what you want, but be prepared to play a long game on getting it.

BD