Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:
Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.
Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.
If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help
Hi everyone,
Looking for some advice/opinions.
Since our court case ended with cafcass validating my husbands ex's alienating behaviour, things have really escalated. It seems the children are truly under her thrawl and have sent some pretty harsh emails. It feels very much like we may be getting to the point where the very little contact that have currently, is going to be stopped completely.
We are trying desperately to think of ways to combat the alienation.
I know it "blaming" the other parent to the children is a big no, no but we are at a loss. My husband is considering writing a letter to the children, explaining how much he loves them and how he has tried to be in their lives but stopped at every opportunity - but not mention the mother. Would this be entirely wrong of him? At this point we feel we have nothing to loose. He would give the letter at his next contact (if it happens).
There is no safeguarding and contact is unsupervised. Children are 8 and 10.
Thoughts???
🙁
Has he thought about recording a video to convey his message rather than letters? 8/10 year olds arent really into letters - that is if they are even passed on.
Hi there
Whilst I understand how difficult it must be for your husband, I would stop short of stating that he has been stopped from being in their lives at every opportunity... telling them that he loves them and really just wants to be their dad is probably as far as he should take it in my opinion.
Letting them know that his love is unconditional and he will always be there for them, whatever happens.
If you have a contact order and it is being breached, I would advise that you take action before it gets any worse. It's tough I know and the stress of fighting it through court is immense.
All the best
I have to agree with MOJO with how you word things. Anything that sounds like you are blaming the mother is likely to have a negative effect on the children if they are already aligning themselves with their mother.
I’ve recently had to write a letter to my child to apologise for something i haven’t done deliberately that my child has been alienated to believe that i have.
The things in question were for me was trying to get my child to eat his dinner and to stay over, on these occasions I’ve tried to encourage (child) to eat up by way of resorting to bribery for example saying things like … if you eat up most of your dinner you can have a nice desert or play on the games console or similar things. According to my ex to my child this is me bullying (child) therefore not caring about their feelings!
Of course nothing could be further from the truth and (child) believes mother over me therefore i am now also a liar as well as a bully according to child’s mother!
She neglects to tell our child that she had given me strict instructions to have (child) fed by a certain time or with certain foods and not to feed (child) too many sweets or let them play on games console for too long.
No….all she says to (child) is that i am a bully and lying to them and that’s not what she does!
CAFCASS and a Psychologist have both said that what i have tried to do is do what “most” parents would in the same situation and that the mother has undermined me by not telling (child) that she had told me what and when to feed etc…
Same goes for the overnights issue, her undermining me at every opportunity.
However, what they both said is that I have to apologise to (Child) for these things in a way that is not seen by (child) as me blaming their mother. Extremely difficult to do when i have so much evidence and proof of their mother lying and controlling.
I’ve ended up having to say things like, i’m sorry if you felt i have upset you but that was never my intention and that i was simply trying to encourage you to eat up or sleep over etc...etc.
I wanted to put that she had been stopping me from seeing them but the CAFCASS officer suggested not to do that as it would push (child) further away.
Instead i’ve had to put that everything i’ve done since leaving their mother was to be the best father i could for them and that yes i left their mother but never left them!
Difficult very difficult to hold back from telling the truth about their mother but they will find out one day when old enough to process and deal with it.
Good luck.
You’re strength of character and staying power is an absolute credit to you Dad-i-d.
Stay strong mate.
Difficult very difficult to hold back from telling the truth about their mother but they will find out one day when old enough to process and deal with it.
Good luck.
And there begins more heartache. I've thought about this one a lot. I know my first question to my dad would be "why didn't you love me enough to tell me earlier".....
We just can't win.
Difficult very difficult to hold back from telling the truth about their mother but they will find out one day when old enough to process and deal with it.
Good luck.
And there begins more heartache. I've thought about this one a lot. I know my first question to my dad would be "why didn't you love me enough to tell me earlier".....
We just can't win.
That one should be easier - you didn't want to spend valuable time dwelling on her and spoiling your time.
What has the world come to when encouraging your child to eat their dinner and stay overnight, is seen as bullying? I've never heard anything quite as ridiculous as this. It makes you wonder whether these professionals have ever actually been around children in their every day life, and have any clue on what it involves being a parent. If encouraging/cajoling/bribing your child to do things that are for their own benefit, then I suppose I am guilty of bulling my children - as is every single other parent I know.
I dont understand why if Cafcass and the psychologist can see that your ex has caused your child to see your actions as bulling, and can see she is deliberately undermining you, that you are to write an apologectic letter? To me, all that does is affirm the childs beliefs, that yes, you have been bullying. Surely a better angle to take, would either your ex writing a letter, or even a joint letter from the both of you, saying that you love him/her dearly and have simply been trying to encourage them. The damage needs to be undone by the person who has been the cause. All they have done, is given the mum more ammunition against you, which will spur her on. Which is exactly what that have done in my husbands case.
In my husbands case, who was sent on the positive parenting programme (apparently geared to tackle alienating parents), they have destroyed his relationship with his children. They have devastated our two children who dont understand why they dont see their half siblings anymore. Only this morning have I had to answer a myriad of questions from them, again.
Her behaviour has become worse - the indirect contact is simply not taking place, with the exception of a few very spiteful emails from his children stating they hate his surname and want to change it. My husband had attempted to discuss this with her, her replies have been scathing as usual, even stating "there may be a court order in place but this doesn't mean I have to stick to it rigidly". She has then alluded to the possibilty that if he pushes the indirect contact they will refuse to see him entirely (on his 6/7 visits a year).
We feel there are a few options, but all have negative outcomes:
1. Write to the judge to restore the case as it has only recently closed. The same cafcass worker will be on the case. Her and the mum were suspiciously chummy - she will undoubtedly support mum on no indirect contact, and the order will be varied to her liking.
2. We apply for enforcement of the order. The court will ask why she has breached the order. Mum will say they don't want to have indirect contact and trying to force them is making them anxious - and she is "concerned" if she keeps forcing them they will then refuse any direct contact. Cafcass will most likely become involved again and the order varied to her liking.
3. We do nothing. Accept the pittance of direct contact he has and allow their little minds to be poisoned inbetween contact. Knowing what she is like, she will be buoyed up by our inaction on the matter, and in a few months time, will state the children do not want to have any contact. By this point the eldest will be nearing the age of gillick competence, considered old enough to make the decision.
So, hence the letter being given at the next contact. No doubt a letter from their dad saying he loves them and will always be there, will be the next reason to stop contact.
It is difficult because we don't know what she has told them about why he was not in their lives for 4 years. She claims she said he had a busy job!! They don't know he has sent cards/letters, as she witheld them. They dont know he was pushed and pushed out of their lives with a giant barge pole. If he writes a letter to say he loves them unconditionally and will always be there, this won't go any way dispel their believes about why he was not there. Or maybe this isn't important for them to know right now and if he just continues to show love and understanding, they will make sense of it all when they are older? But what if the contact does stop and he doesn't even have the opportunity to continue to show them the love and understanding they deserve and need?
It is so hard to know what to say and do for the best.
Oh, and just to add - the same old chestnut of "I am asking you to stop contacting me" has begun. So there is no further discussion that can be had.
I’m really sorry that you have come up against such unassailable hostility, and that the very people that should be actively supporting your children to have a relationship with their Dad, are so ineffective.
I wish I could give you some answers and a solution, but I’m at a loss to know where you can go from here. There comes a point when all avenues are exhausted and for your own sanity, it will be time to take a step back. No one can say when you will reach that point, it might be that you can step back temporarily and try again when you are ready... the toll it takes on the whole family is sometimes too high a price to pay, but one thing is for sure, you have tried with everything you could to make it right.
All the best
This won't help much at the moment, but it might in the future, but send all cards recorded delivery - that way you have proof that they were sent, and you also either get proof that they were delivered, or that they were refused. In a few years, you will be able to prove that you sent the cards and that if they weren't received, then it's because of the mother.
... another suggestion, duplicate everything you send and put it in a keepsake/memory box, that you can give them when they’re older. You can also put photos of their siblings and family moments that you’d like to share... it will show them that they were always a part of your lives and you never stopped caring.
All the best
Welcome to the DAD.info forum.
We don’t like to set ‘rules’, but to make sure that you and the other dads are kept safe, we have some requests. When engaging with the forum, please be aware of the following:
- The forum is not moderated 24 hours per day.
- Many of the moderators do so on a voluntary basis. Whilst they may be able to provide some guidance, advice or support, they may not be able to deal with specifics.
- We are not an emergency crisis service so if you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call emergency services.
- If you are concerned about the safety of a child, please click here to find the support you can get for them (link to new page)
- If you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123. They are open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.
We hope you find this forum a supportive environment and thank you for joining us.