[Solved] Judge's refusal to look at evidence.

That's appalling. I don't know too much about the appeal procedure - as far as I am aware it is only if there is a legal issue, so I would think that it's possible in your case, but hopefully someone who knows more will be able to help out.

I found a link to one of my previous posts regarding submission of recorded evidence and the fact that I can appeal. https://www.dad.info/forum/legal-eagle/46544-going-to-court#77448

The original article stating that I can appeal is here... http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed160225

Can anyone else offer advice please?

i believe that if evidence is submitted than a judge cannot turn a blind eye as ive read many caselaws about appeals based on that very fact

Mavic - please can you give me some examples? I'm completely lost here I have no idea what I can do about this.

I would be very careful in how you handle this. Even if you were given permission to appeal, it would take months, maybe more than a year if the appeal went against you, during which time you'd hardly be seeing your child, after which point no judge would grant you residence.

The hearing is very recent, take some time to care for yourself, then think about what you are trying to achieve. If what you want is a good positive relationship with your child, your best bet is to try and go to supervised contact and make it work for the benefit of your child.

Note I am not saying anything about whether this is right or wrong, fair or unfair, but it seems to me that you need to make a choice between being right or being able to build a relationship with your child.

I know this is unfair, unfortunately neither you nor I are going to change the system, your best bet is to go along with it.

Thanks for your reply SuperproudDad.

But I don't think you understand. I could easily have applied for a child arrangements order where I could have the children come to visit. I've already been forced into supervised access because I objected, not very strongly, to my ex withholding the children from me. Withholding them based on lies that I knew were false.

I've applied for residency because I honestly believe my children are at risk of harm. The whole point of the evidence I'm supplying is to prove that they're at risk, as well as to prove my innocence in the things I'm being accused of. If I just "accept the system", my children will still remain to be at risk. I'm not talking about a papercut - I mean serious risk of being in a car accident because my ex refuses to divulge to DVLA that she has a heart condition, that she has often driven hundreds of miles up to 42 hours without sleep, that has has regularly hit the children for absolutely nothing.

If I don't do something about this and my children are hurt I will never forgive myself. But in order to be heard, I'm having to risk a lengthy court process and annoying the people who are making decisions about our lives. I'm trying to do what I believe is best for my children, their welfare, their safety. I'm not trying to hurt my ex, I'm not trying to annoy people. But nobody is listening.

I hear your advice. Unfortunately I'm still no closer to being able to decide what to do.

It's impossible to know for certain what's the best thing to do, you have to go on probabilities based on what you know.

Evidence that comes from you doesn't carry the same weight as 3rd party evidence. I understand you have recordings, but when you think about it, when one party knows a recording is being made and the other doesn't, it's easy to see how the recorded situation is not natural.

Your case seems to revolve on negative things about your ex. Unless those allegations are backed by 3rd parties, this will play out against you, I'm 100% sure.

Either way, you will always benefit from including points about how your child is missing out by not having you, or having you in a restricted manner.

Hi there

I agree with superprouddad, sometimes you have to slow down to move forward. Once the court gets a whiff of acrimony or bitterness from a litigant they will see it negatively, they want to see a parent that is keen to move forward, putting the past aside and concentrating on the children, you have mentioned very little about them to be honest.

You're post speaks of criminal neglect, of driving issues and work issues concerning your ex; family court isn't the place to get action on these things. You really need to take the courts lead and concentrate and focus on the children.

Unfortunately, anything that happened over three months ago is considered as historic and will not carry weight with the court, they will see much of it as a result of an acrimonious split that has little bearing on the current situation. All it will do is to add further strain to an already fractured relationship between two parents.

You say yourself that "the amount of evidence is simply overwhelming". It can often happen that when too much "evidence" is submitted to the court, the really important issues are lost amongst it all, and I fear that is exactly what has happened here.

The judge has asked for a S37, this will look at the welfare issues you have raised, that's a result if you feel that she is failing the children. It's a report that is designed to look specifically for aspects of harm and is ordered when there is a possibility of some harm to the children. It will most likely be prepared by Social Services, which ss what you wanted too.

Has the judge accepted your evidence, has it been filed as evidence, or has he refused to allow it to be filed? It sounds to me that it's on file but it's up to him how he relates to it... if he's allowed it to be lodged and it's not current, he's in a strong position to discount it, so in my opinion, an appeal wouldnt be successful.

I understand completely how you're feeling but for your own sake you must let go of the past, of the split and all of the stuff that followed your separation. How long ago did you make the recordings? How long ago were you aware of her driving and work issues? Their arguement would be, if you were so concerned for the children and her clients, why didn't you report it at the time.

I know you haven't wanted to hear this, but please, take our advice and concentrate on moving forward with this, in a child centric way. Due to the allegations she is unlikely to want to work with you right now over contact. All I can suggest is that you write to her, or her solicitor if she has one and ask if they would agree to supervised contact in a contact centre. If you can get that in place, the staff at the Centre will be tasked with writing a report about how you and the children get on together and a good report can go far further in contact issues, than getting bogged down in issues between the parents.

I think you have to accept that your focus must shift now, concentrate on contact and how that can be developed, this is just my opinion, but I firmly believe this is the right way to go.

I agree with superproudad and mojo

I think you really need to take a step back and focus on what is best for your children right now rather than being so negative about your ex.

If I'm right in thinking this was your FHDRA, you wouldn't have had permission to file evidence at that stage and trying to do so will only put a judge's back up. If I remember correctly, you also sent several contacts to Cafcass? You will really put people's backs up if you go charging in like that.

A S37 should be the time for concerns to be investigated and I have to agree with mojo - why hadn't you reported these things before?

Honestly, focus on the children and what they need and do what is asked of you by the court.

SuperProudDad

Your reply reminded me of a scene in Dances with Wolves when the native Indian elder chief said something like "It's hard to know what is the best thing to do". 🙂

"Evidence that comes from you doesn't carry the same weight as 3rd party evidence. I understand you have recordings, but when you think about it, when one party knows a recording is being made and the other doesn't, it's easy to see how the recorded situation is not natural".

First of all, lets look at the reasons for the recordings. I've been accused of the most horrendous things. Let's say one of those things is that I beat the children, just for example (this is actually one of the things I'm accused of, but not the least of them). That these accusations are backed up by witness statements by my ex's family. But in the recordings, I raise the issue of beating the children and my ex admits, on video, that it wasn't actually me that hit the children, it was her. She also admits on a different date that I have never been violent towards her or the children. Over a series of recordings it becomes clear, from my ex's admissions, that I have never ever been violent.
Now bear in mind that there are some guys who post on DadInfo that have lost their children - they haven't seen them for months or years. I'm sure there are many many more who don't post on DadInfo. Also bear in mind that the judge has ordered a S37 - I could be in exactly the same position where I lose my children.
Without the recordings to prove my innocence, even though I knew they were being recorded and my ex didn't, they could be the vital difference between never seeing my children again or being a part of their lives. Social services rely on the "balance of probabilities" rather than the "beyond reasonable doubt" principle. With "evidence" supplied by my ex and her family and friends, not just about hitting the children but a host of other allegations, with nothing to contest it, I would more than likely never see the children again. The children would lose their father based on lies.

"Your case seems to revolve on negative things about your ex. Unless those allegations are backed by 3rd parties, this will play out against you, I'm 100% sure".
Exactly the opposite is true. My ex's case, the whole reason for supervised contact, the reason I'm going to court, are all based on negative things about me. Things I'm accused of that I can prove that I'm not guilty of. I can prove these things not just with the recordings, but with documents (all supplied to the courts) that show contradictions in my ex's story. Evidence that shows she is lying. This is evidence from the children's school, the police, social services, witness statements, etc.
But yes, there are a lot of negative things about my ex. Our children were in an environment where they were bullied, subjected to verbal and physical abuse and put in situations that could harm them and there was nothing that they could do about it. I spent years trying to protect them from this abuse. At one point I walked out with my oldest daughter simply because she was not safe and I was accused of trying to kidnap her. My ex said this simply to cover herself and the neglect she was causing.

"Either way, you will always benefit from including points about how your child is missing out by not having you, or having you in a restricted manner".
I pointed out in my position statement that I had taught my daughter mathematics to a level that she is more than two years in front of any other children of the same age. To quote the school, she has a massive potential for deeper learning. I spent huge amounts of time teaching her, all of it while having fun, to the point where she now loves mathematics. It's one of her favourite things in life. She can put most adults to shame. I could ask her what's 346 x 872 and she would work out the answer in her head within a minute. Most adults couldn't do that. The judge said in the hearing "This isn't relevant!". My daughter said to me a couple of days ago that she wanted to work at CERN. She's 8 years old! Most children wouldn't have a clue what CERN is. In contrast (also proven in the recordings) my ex beat her son and screamed at him on many occasions because he committed the most horrendous of crimes - he didn't understand his homework. This started from when he was five or six years old. This she also admits to on several occasions. She also admits threatening to put him into foster care, that she hates him, that she would send him to live with his father who's response was that if she tried he would report her to social services - he didn't want him.

I see my daughters for two hours a week - this has been going on for nearly two years. Their lives are not better because I am not a part of it. But the judge didn't seem to care in the slightest about this. He didn't seem to care that our children have been abused by my ex for years, not by myself. I have done everything I can to love them, protect them and teach them. They're the most precious thing in my life.

My ex is not going to change. She is not going to reveal that she is driving with a heart condition. This isn't a historical thing, this is something that will always be relevant. She could have a stroke at any moment. Her driving is awful - she's had approx 20 minor accidents in the past 8 years. When is one of those accidents going to be serious?
She isn't going to stop bullying the children or hitting them - it's in her nature. The whole point of the evidence is to show that there was a consistent and repeated pattern of abuse. That the allegations against me were to deflect from that and hide the truth. She isn't going to stop making up lies or trying to alienate me from the children. Without me being there to protect the children, she is free to do whatever she likes and there is nothing anybody can do to stop it. This is why I've applied for residency.

But the judges, cafcass, social services don't seem to care about any of this. They don't care that her stories are so full of holes and contradictions that no sane person would believe them. Of course I care about the children - more than anything in the world. We have so much fun together, can always be seen laughing and being silly and we're full of love for each other. I'm not trying to stop them having a mother. I want their mother to be involved in their lives. I just want them to be safe, happy and loved. By both parents.

Of course I'm upset. Of course I'm bitter. I'm a human being with emotions and I've been done the most terrible wrongs. My children have been kept from me for nearly two years, all based on lies designed very cleverly to hide the truth. And the judges response to this was to place the decision of how much contact I have with the children in the very hands of the person who has caused all of the abuse, alienation and neglect. His response was to completely ignore overwhelming amounts of evidence (from many sources, including the recordings) that my ex has been and will continue to be harmful to our children. And all she has to do is turn on the waterworks, flutter her eyelids and act scared of me. Hook, line and sinker.

I feel like I'm banging my head up against a brick wall. When will someone listen? When will someone take the time out to see what's really been happening? When will someone actually take the children's welfare and future into account and see past the lies and deceit? I have never and never will do anything that will hurt my children - I love them with all my heart.

Paul.....you are missing the point......you have to submit evidence at the right time; when it is asked for or ordered. You have to let people do their jobs and be patient or you will just shoot yourself in the foot with the professionals.

You're having a report done and if there is a contested hearing, you will have chance to cross examine on any relevant issues. That's when you should be putting things forward, not bombarding people with evidence when it hasn't been asked for or when you don't have permission.

Everything you submit has to be relevant and it sounds like you've probably submitted far too much evidence and clouded the situation.

You've had a few of us saying similar things & we're not dismissing your position or feelings about the case, but we have a lot of experience between us. Superprouddad has given you some good advice, you would do well to take some of it on board.