[Solved] Is alternate Saturdays reasonable ?

Reegarding the amount of time i'd say the child has the right to 50/50 with its his/her parents but sadly its not always the case as many on here will agree.

alternate weekends seems to be the "norm" but i'm talking friday night to monday morning there............weekly contact is surely much better for a child...no?

Push for more and accept what you feel you can....

whatever gets agreed have it enshrined in the order....do not allow the words "whatever other contact can be agreed between the parties (parents)" i stupidly thought that as its in the order it would happen without too much fuss.....how wrong was i!!!

have the progression of contact to overnights fixed timetable in the order.....non onf this "other contact as can be agreed between the parties/parents"

e.g.
- contact weekly every saturday 9am-6pm from now to 3mths time (date)
- increasing on (date) to overnights weekly....pick up 9am saturday...drop off 5pm sunday (until 6mth time)
- then increasing from (Date) to fortnightly pick up 4pm friday drop off 9am monday with over night mid week (if practical) if not then to at least have tea with child.

go for more than this and accept your minimum if you can.

just my own opinion and what i was looking for as a minimum.

I would put forward a clear and concise schedule of contact as Dad-i-d has suggested, perhaps have an alternative so that the mother has a choice.

If the judge goes with CAFCASS recommendations and decides to leaves it up to the parents to review in 12 weeks then your son should argue his case and use examples of her non compliance to back it up.

The judge can bring it back to court, I suspect that the "20 week" deadline is more to do with Government targets . I would request that there is a further review hearing in 6 months to make sure that the mother is compliant and that contact has progressed to overnights.

Best of luck on Friday.

Hi There,
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I completely agree with Mojo push for a staged increase of time that is written into the order rather than, the vague, "to be decided between the parents" I would point out that if the mother was willing to arrange contact between the 2 of them then the order wouldn't have been applied for.
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Ensure that when you put something together that you have some room for compromise, in both the time frame and the level of time spent with your son/grandson so that you can show you can compromise.
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I agree that the 20 weeks seems more like a target than a rule, many cases last much longer, than 20 weeks i'm certain mine did, however that was some years ago so things may have changed.
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If you want to put a plan together and post it so we can comment feel free, if you prefer to keep the plan away from prying eyes then send it to myself or Mojo (I'm sure Mojo won't mind 😉 ) in a private message and we will happily look over it for you.
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GTTS

Thanks all - your views confirm the approach my Son will be taking this afternoon - he is self represented but after a truly awful first hearing ( see earlier post ) the LA and Majistrates at the 2nd hearing acted professionally giving my Son a fair chance to present his case ; the Majistrates were supportive of his rights to contact ; and distinctly unimpressed by the Mothers histrionics and her unwilliness to engage. The Majistrates also particularly reorganised the date for today's hearing so it would come back before them today. So all I can say is fingers crossed!

After the debacle of the first hearing I realised I wasn't best placed to fill the support role of McKenzies Friend - as whilst listening to the malicious assault on my Sons character I had to suppress my overwhelming desire to leap over the tables and head [censored] his X and then deliver a swift knee to her Solicitors groin ! Obviously (??) thats an exageration but I I was too emotionally involved to be effective and he is now getting good support from a family friend .

I will report back on the outcome .

Hi Mamabear.

I hope that all goes well for your son and having regular contact with his son.

in the final hearing I know from experiencing that they would want to close off the case as soon as possible and get both parents to both agree on a schedule of times and dates of contact however if that fails the judge will review both sides proposals and decide for themselves.

I myself had a good schedule leading towards as much contact as possible that included two half day visits a week then alternate weekend my son would sleep over. I was not looking for the length of time my son stayed with me but the frequency of him staying over.

Good luck and hope all goes well.

please let us know the outcome

Trying to look on the bright side as something is better than nothing - but Court would not budge beyond what was in the Caffcass report and even specifying a timeline for overnight stays was as if asking for Moon and outcome left uncertain.

Despite pages and pages of reports by Grassroots Officers who oversaw the twice weekly visits for the last six weeks and which were positively glowing with praise and positive statements about his ability to engage with his Son ( condensed into less than a paragraph in the CAFFCASS report ) ; three month drug test for cannabis showed clear ; letter from his GP refuting all allegations of mental health problems and his X unable to prove a single one of her viscious claims etc - every dam hoop jumped through successfully at significant financial and emotional costs ; and the Court feel complying with the vague paragraph of the absent CAFFCASS Officer is the most important consideration.

The Caffcass Officer led us both to believe he would be recommending every Saturday and overnights - he has spoken very supportively about regular contact throughout and even gone on to say he realised the Mother was being deliberately obstructive bla, bla ,bla . Then he blows it at the last minute by his evasive report and despite telling me a couple of days ago he would rethink it and ..... ' I really need to attend this hearing' ; doesn't change it doesn't show up and ........ Guess what? It was his last [censored] day working for Caffcass today.

I've said it before and I will say it again ...... Separated Dads are the most overtly and grossly discriminated against people in the UK ; this discrimination is endemic and perpetuated by within the Family Courts and other than separated Dads & people close to them , nobody else seems to know , care or give a dam !

Rant over !

That was quite a rant - sorry folks just venting.

Despite our dissapointment we are still very thankful to the good folks offering advice on the Dad . info site as it really did help. When I have had time to reflect a little more calmly I will give some feedback on the lessons learned and the mistakes I think we made in the hope it will be of benefit to others.

It's good to vent and perfectly safe to do so here!

So you have alternate Saturdays, the parents to review in 12 weeks with a view to increasing existing contact and moving towards overnight contact.

This seems an insurmountable problem given the mothers hostility, the best you can do is to adhere to the order and in 10 weeks time write to the mother and request her suggestions for an increasing schedule of contact, include suggestions for a schedule of increasing contact and ask her to respond in writing. Send recorded signed for delivery and keep a copy of the letter

If you don't hear anything back from her write again, remind her of the courts directions and give her a time frame to respond or you will not hesitate to write to the court and ask for the case to be reopened for urgent new directions stating that judges have the power to do this if their orders are being flouted.

The judge that made the order has discretionary powers to reopen a case and bring it back to court....some do and some won't, it's a suck it and see situation. If they won't I would consider making a further application, either to enforce, in which case mediation isn't mandatory, or as a variation of the order for further definition.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

Good luck

Oh [censored] - this is so confusing! 

 I got that wrong  the CAFFCASS report states to be reviewed by the parents after 6 months - but that is not even mentioned under the agreed arrangements for the children listed in the final draft of the court report   produced by  the Mothers solicitors ( not the Court?) Is this right? Particularly in light of the fact that my Son had a complete emotional breakdown during the hearing , became largely incoherent and unable to focus and just ended up agreeing to the recommendations of the CAFFCASS report ? 

Court Orders   - The Agreed Arrangements orders every Friday ( 2 hours) and alternate Saturdays  10 am - 4.9

Underneath the Court Orders there are lots of variations for Xmas , Birthdays etc  -  all in the Mothers favour about suspending during holidays whereas CAFFCASS report suggested increased time during holidays . 

Recitals - Several of these but in particular :  'that overnight stay is reviewed by Jacks parents after 6 months , whilst another states : ' the Mother agrees to CONSIDER overnight contact after 6 months of successful contact. She is not against progression to overnight but does not feel that the appropriate time for progression can be predicted  today , any progression must be at ( child's name) pace.  

Conversations  with the Caffcass Officer during the six weeks of interim supervised contact implied weekly contact and an  rapid progression to overnight after 12 weeks was expressly stated.  I immediately spoke to the Cafcass Officer when his report did not reflect this and he stated that he would 'rethink the wording' and felt it was important he attended the hearing to clarify any ambiguities. He did neither and so far as I understand it the day of the Hearing was also his last day of employment with CAFCASS. 

As the hearing was listed as an effective final hearing Is it now too late  ,  or is there to do anything anyone can suggest to try and form the basis for at least a comeback on overnight stays etc.  Also, the Solicitors gave a deadline of today for response but I sent a holding email saying we needed more time. 

I'm sorry to hear this,

If there is anything that they have included in the draft order that wasn't agreed in court, or they have omitted anything that the court ordered then you should let them know that you are not happy with the draft and give the reasons why and do this in writing so that you have a record of it.