[Solved] INTERNATIONAL LAW REGARDING CHILD CONTACT

As far as I'm aware if there has been a court order in place and your name is on the birth certificate. Then I thought either party had to gain authority to take the child abroad.

Not 100% on this though. Do I currently have a solicitor as if I don't we can asks the legal team to drop by and give some advice.

Hi thedudeabides,

Firstly i would just need to establish a few items:

1) You have mentioned ex and estranged... are you actually divorced?
2) Is there a Residency Order in place?
3) Has your daughter been taken abroad (back to the Seychelles) without your permission?
4) As you went to Family Court, has an Order been granted/made?

Hi

One thing I'm not clear on, does your ex have any right to remain in this country if she returns? If not, I can't see that a court could make an order for your daughter if it means that it would force a separation of mother and daughter, plus a court would find it virtually impossible to enforce and order if they don't return.

Hello Yoji,

Thanks for replying to my post.

Yes I am now divorced since June last year. There is no residency order in place. My daughter has been taken abroad to the Seychelles without informing her solicitor, the courts, or myself. At the time she left we were currently in the process of enforcing a contact order.

Hello actd,

Because my ex has kept all communication to a bare minimum for 2 years I know nothing of how she has managed to stay in the country, or whether she has right to if she returns.

I'm afraid, unless yoji or anyone else has other thoughts, that I think any action you take in the court is almost irrelevant unless you ex turns up in the UK as the order would be unenforceable. I don't know what the legal system is in the Seychelles, but it may be worth doing some research.

Hi thedudeabides,

OK, thanks for answering those questions. What your ex wife has done is illegal. She should not have taken the child outside of the UK without first obtaining a Court Order.

You have a few things that you need to do if you are serious about having Contact with your child. In honesty i'm surprised that you have left it 2years before even starting to ask or question this? I'm a little confused as to that?

You need to contact the following:

0207 008 0878 <-- This is the Foreign and Commonwealth Office specifically dealing with "Foreign Abduction". You need to report your daughter as abducted. People at this Office will be most helpful to your situation, and you will need to have as much information about your ex as you can obtain. Make sure you do this before you actually call them. You should be invited for an Interview (possibly under caution) however the Adviser on the phone should give more information.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/when-things-go-wrong/child-abduction/

This is the website with the info.

Speak to an adviser and i would say that you need to be prepared to make a trip or two over to the Seychelles as technically she will fall under their Laws now.

Hope this has helped some more and thanks for just answering those questions.

Yoji,

That's some great advice, but I think you may have misread thedudeabides' previous posts.

He has been fighting in the family courts to regain contact with his daughter for around two years. It looks like his ex has pulled every trick in the book to slow the process down and when he did finally manage to get a contact order his ex has chosen to break it repeatedly.

He was in the process of trying to enforce the order, but his ex has just pulled up sticks and fled the country taking his daughter with her. I get the impression that this had happened in the last few weeks. She appears to have done this to escape both the court and a number of debts she has run up.

The cost of his legal battle, along with the debts associated with his ex, have forced him into bankruptcy.

He has obviously been very serious about having contact with his daughter, but has been failed by the apathy of the UK courts. I suspect his solicitor has also been quite slack, as there has been no mention of a prohibitive steps order to dissuade his ex from taking his daughter out of the country (not that it would have done much good in this instance)...

Hi FM,

My bad, i can see it like that now yes. But in either instance thedudeabides, the crucial thing anyone will say regarding abduction is that time is of the essence.

Please keep us posted :).

Hey everyone. Thanks so much for the advice, and thanks filmmaker1970 for the correct interpretation of my situation. I will follow it up and keep things updated. Cheers.

No worries 😉 Good luck with everything and let us know how you get on.

FM '70

UPDATE

I've been in touch with the police and they refused to get involved citing it's a civil matter, get a solicitor. I spoke to the foreign & commonwealth office to a very helpful lady called Katrina and she mentioned REUNITE, an online charity that offers support and advice in these situations. They both reccomended I go back to the police citing the 1985 Child Abduction Act. Which I did. And yet again they firmly repeated, no. So where do I go from here, other than try applying for legal aid then go for a Return Order via the Foreign & Commonwealth Office which may or may not end in a result. Any answers?

Hi The DudeAbides,

I'm appalled that you find yourself in this situation. You have been failed by UK law and the family courts. I can't imagine how you must be feeling, but endure for the moment.

I'm sure Yoji will make an appearnace at some point soon and he may be able to offer some advice. In the interim have you contacted the CLC? They may be able to offer further advice?

Again, my deepest sympathies. This is a horrible situation to find yourself in and I hope that it can be resolved as soon as possible.

FM '70

I've been mulling this over for an hour or so. I think you need to make an appointment to see your MP.

You want to give him the details of your case, particularly drawing his attention to the stance that the police are taking, which is contary to the advice you have received from both the Foreign & Commonwealth Office and REUNITE. Your MP may be able to support your case through the F&CW Office and will most certainly be able to request a meeting with a government minister or one of their senior staff. He can also pursue a meeting with the regional chief constable and lobby to have the police take some kind of action. He may be able to do other things, but I'm unsure what exactly this would be...

You should definitely be proactive and pursue Legal Aid to go after a return order. It's going to be an up hill struggle. I think you also need to look at creating some public support. I'm not necessarily talking about abseiling down the House of Commons dressed as Spiderman, but maybe creating a facebook page that documents your case and use social media as a tool to reach out and create awareness.

Follow every avenue that's open to you, including any back channel opportunities through mutual friends and family.

Hopefully other Dad's may have additional advice, but please kep us informed with your progress!

FM '70

Hi,

I have to say i am very surprised that the Police didn't have any involvement. I would say to recontact REUNITE/FCO and request who in the Police that you specifically need to speak to. For example, a general PC is unlikely to trifle with this one.

They will most likely have a specialist department. Try calling 101 from your landline (15p/min) and ask to be connected with someone who deals with international abduction.

If that fails, message back and i can give some more pointers on this 🙂

Good advice. Give it a go 🙂

I tried that one - asking to speak to someone senior but they came back with, 'the issue went to several of our most senior officers and they came back with the same answer'

Have messaged my MP...former governent minister Yvette Cooper current shadow home secretary.

Try to go and see her at one of her surgeries - it means she is more likely to remember your case than just a letter which her staff will do the bulk of the work on anyway.

To thedudeabides,

You must now contact the Police, i am very aware what they have said to you previously but you need to make a formal complaint relating to the abduction of your child.

The Police will then be in touch to take a statement from you (within 48hrs) and they will then through their departments establish contact through i believe the Home Office and onto the Authorities local to your child.

I would also strongly advise that because of the specialist nature of this incident that following the Police lines of enquiry that you appoint a reputable Solicitor with whom you can keep up to date following the Police investigation.

The Police should not be telling you that this is not a matter they deal with... it falls under their remit, clearly and conclusively.

I think you need to make an appointment to see your MP directly. It sounds like the police are fobbing you off and, sadly, this is not uncommon.

In the interim, go back to them and ask for the details of every officer that you have spoken to and the details of their superiors who have 'allegedly' been consulted about this. Make a record of the dates and times that you've called to attempt to make a complaint. Tell them that you are meeting with your MP shortly and you want to provide this information to her as she begins to look into the matter.

I think this is appalling, but try and stay positive.

FM '70

Hi everyone. It's been quite a while since my last post as lots has happened since. Since the last past, I'd been dealing with the police and the FCO over this. Sometime in April we got the news back from the police that border control confirmed my ex-wife and daughter had returned to the country, so the police sent on officer up to Northallerton to visit and speak to her. The docor 'martin' we believed who she lived there with spoke with the police saying he wasn't with her anymore and didn't know where she was.

So now I'm treating it like a missing persons case, which I kept pushing the police to see it as.

This led to a month or two of much uncertainty and myself then wondering if the police were doing all they said they would and following up every lead I gave them.

On the Saturday night before fathers day I received 3 phone calls from my ex. She sounded a little drunk and kept saying 'Martin is that you?', even on the third call back and after I'd told her it was myself. Whilst she was on the phone she did acknowledge she knew she was talking to me and accused me of harrassing her, and kept saying 'Why are you doing this to me?' I kept my cool and kept asking if she was ok, and if my daughter was ok, and where they were, and asking if they were safe. I couldn't get a straight sentence out of her it was a bit garbled and confused. She eventually hung up.

The following morning on fathers day it kept going through my mind, did the police contact her previous address and number which I gave them. I thought [censored] it, and called the number. Lo and behold, my ex answered the phone. I immediatley hung up and contacted the police, they called the lancashire police and a team visited the address swiftly and found them living there, my daughter safe and well.

They advised my ex that what she had been doing ie. taking my daughter out the country without my permission, is illegal and if she continued she would be prosecuted. She told them she recognised my right to see my daughter and to make the necessary arrangements through the family courts.

I have had the case transferred to my home town so she can make the journey to me this time, and have also got Yvette Cooper MP overseeing this case as I have been visiting her regularly asking for help in putting a bit of pressure on the courts & police etc.

Are there any further safeguards I can put in place (apart from the prohibitive steps order I am about to)? Any further advice and help?

Thanks

The Dude

Hi tda,

Nice to hear such positive news 🙂

Everything in my opinion seems to be moving forward nicely. The only thing i would say is that as you are submitting a PSO, it would be worth you completing the C100 to be inclusive of contact arrangements... remember about having contact being a build up, slow and steady at first.

I think what you've done and are doing now is fine 🙂

Hello Dude,

Good to hear from you again and I'm delighted that your little girl is back in the UK 🙂

I don't see how a court can fail to give you a PSO given recent events. I seem to recall that you already have a contact order in place and were attempting to have it enforced prior to your ex disappearing? I think you need to continue with the enforcement.

As Yoji has said the court will expect contact to be rebuilt over a period of time culminating in overnight stays etc. I'm glad that you have had the hearing transfered nearer to you, but how far away from you -geographically speaking - is your ex living? You will need to use a contact centre and the court will probably want it to be near her for the sake of convenience.

I would suggest to the court that, whilst you're more than happy to arrange a contact centre and travel to see your daughter, you have real concerns that your ex will just ignore the order yet again. These concerns are legitimate, based on what is now a fairly well documented series of violations relating to an existing court order. Should she fail to meet your contact arrangements again, ask the court to ensure that they penalise your ex and make her liable for all of your out-of-pocket costs relating to that contact session. They should do this each and every time she fails to adhere to the court order. The courts usually avoid penalising the mother, as it can be argued that they are penalising the child too. However I think they may go with this... as it's not enough to impact on your daughter, but maybe just enough to sting your ex in the purse and make her think twice?

Good to know that your MP is supporting you in this. I think it will help 😉

FM '70