[Solved] Indirect contact

Hi and welcome

Can you clarify - have you ever met your daughter, and if so, when was the last time you saw her?

Hi Womak,

welcome to the site.

I don't have any experience of what your going through and I would imagine that there won't be much on the site, most the dads on here have had battled to see thier children and from a very early age or as soon as a seperation has happened.

That said it doesn't mean that we can't/won't help, any judge or medaitor will tell you that the past is in the past and what they are trying to reach is something that works for the future. I would imagine that in the years you haven't seen your daughter you will have changed a lot in your views and that being around children that aren't yours it has braught it all back.

It's never too late to make contact and it's good you are trying, I would be patient though as your daughter is growing up and has a mind of her own, if you have never made contact before firstly she doesn't know you and wouldn't know what it's like to have a dad in the picture, you also don't know what her mum may have said.

It's natural to be thinking that your ex may be stopping her from writing back and although this may be the case, it may also be your daughters choice.

This may end up being a long slow proccess to allow you to be able to get to the point of seeing your daughter and you need to ensure that this goes at a pace that suits her and not you or your ex.

Your daughters feeling and well being rank well above those of yours and your ex's and hopefully caffcas and the courts will ensure that her feeling and well being are priority.

As actd has asked have you ever met your daughter?

Just remember the slower this procces is taken the stronger the and longer the relationship you have with your daughter should be, If you rush it you risk pushing her away, play the slow game and show her and her mum that you will take as long as needed and do whatever is needed to get to the point of having a relationship with your little girl.

Hope this helps

Darren

Hi,thanks for your replys.I did see her once when she was 2days old.Ex invited me round to see her.It was ok until i realised she'd had the locks changed and ex had asked her dad to sit outside the house because she didnt feel "safe"with me.I left and it was fathers day the next week but i also have a grown up daughter and had promised to see her that day so ex said she wasn't going to try and arrange contact again.
She's my daughter and i will see her.I will insist now that it goes from indirect contact to meeting her.I think 7 is too young to decide she doesnt want to see me.I wanted to send her presents for her birthday etc but ex told court that i havnt paid child support so she wont agree until im up to date with payments.

Hi I tend to agree that 7 is too young to make a decision on seeing you, however it isn't too young to have feelings and views, and these should be taken into account.

I would be pushing for contact too, but I would strongly advise taking this process very slowly she is only 7 so you have plenty of time to make your relationship with her work, there is no rush other than your desire to see her. This will be hard but remember its been 7 years and she has never seen you, it will be very strange for her to be looking at you as her dad. If this all happens too quickly my fear would be that she would feel pushed into it and would then reject you either now or later in life.

Your ex saying that you can't see her until you are up-to-date on child support doesn't even come into it and this was something I challenged in court yesterday when I attended (I have always paid but my ex wanted more), Not seeing a child does mean you are still liable to pay child support however not paying doesn't mean that you loose your right to see your child.

I would urge you to allow things to go at your daughters pace and allow it to go as slow or as quickly as suits her, showing you are prepaired for it to be this way would probably help with respect of the court and caffcas's rulings as it will show your thinking of your daughters needs.

How do you feel representing yourself is going?

Darren

She's saying i cant send a present until i'm up to date with csa,i just paid a huge amount because the CSA got a liability order in November.I hav'nt paid since then.I dont see why i should if i dont see her.When i see her i'll take her to Spain for holidays and make it up to her-she's never been abroad i dont think because ex is in a low paid job now since my daughter was born.
Can she kick up a fuss if i just send a present?It will look good for the judge,surely?

I wouldn't start trying to play the "look good for the judge" game as that could work against you.

I would just do this the right way, As I said before you shouldn't ever with hold your csa money just because your not able to see your child, it's your child and you should provide for her whether you are able to see her or not.

With regards to sending her a gift I wouldn't personally, I would play everything as your ex is asking, and show that you are prepaired to be reasonable, so that you are able to see your daughter, if you upset things further it will only make your ex dig her heels in further!!!

Darren

No it wont look good in front of a judge. You need to be paying your CSA, else you look like you are shirking your responsibility.

You are trying to run before you can walk. Its not good talking about taking her to Spain for holidays, when youve only written her 2 letters and not seen her in 7 years.

You need to take this slowly. Its about your DD not you. You cant just slot her into your family because youve now decided thats what you want to do.

You risk alientaing her more, pissing your ex off beyong all measures (and you really need her on board for this to work) and pissing the judge and professionals off.

Ive made these mistakes and now I dont see me son who is 8. At 7 they let him decide not to see me, because the emotional distress he was suffering outweighted the benefits of seeing me. I can now write to him thats it!

Dont do the same.
Tony

DD = daughter :}

anyone???

Ok,thanks.But she is mine.I will see her.I dont care if its just once,she will know i came looking and its her mum who stopped me seeing her.

But she wont because if you go into court with that attitude they will mark you down as someone who is unreasonable. Mate im trying to help you here .. its been 12 months since my court order was made and I can say the whole time up to that point I felt like you ... my ex was alienating my son, all I needed to do was fight to see him, it was all ex wifes fault (and I had been seeing my son up to the age of him being 5 before she told me the other kid wasnt mine and then stopped all contact as a result of me querying my bio son)

Its only been with a lot of counselling that I can see I played a PART of this (not all of it and the ex has nw aknowledged that she was employing alienation tactics).

You need to SLOW DOWN and STOP DEMANDING THINGS.

You need to pay maintenance

You need to write more to your daughter - dont send long letters writing about how wonderful your new family is, and all the wonderful things you are doing with them. Send short postcards, with a brief thinking of you, tell he youd like to send her a comic next time so ask her to reply which comic she would like enclose a self addressed envelope then send a small comic with a note thinking of you. Apologise to her and tell her you are sorry you havent been involved before but you are trying to make it right now. Send a photo of you (and not you and your new family). Send her small presents. only needs to be a pack of colouful pencils from the poundshop etc.

Then once she is writing back (which is the hard part) you can move onto phone conversations or possibly meeting her. These will need to be short meetings, somewhere neutral - the park perhaps, most probably with her mum or someone she trusts (If you dont do this it will be a contact centre). Then these meetings can build up, go bowling, go the cinema, start taking her out for the day, then overnight etc.

You need to stop taking the hard line else I think the judge will wite you out your daughters life for good and your daughter wont know you came looking, she will be told that you came down demanding stuff that wasnt in her interests, refused to listen to her feelings at the best way to be involved in your life (which of course her mum supported), and when you didnt get exactly what you wanted when you wanted it you WALKED AWAY AGAIN. You then have to hope that when shes grown up she cares enough to want to know why you walked away,andwhen you present you version is cancels out the anger and bitterness she will have at you - i think this is unlikely.

Womak,

Been reading through this thread and thought I would mention a couple of things.

I hav'nt paid since then.I dont see why i should if i dont see her.

Access and maintenance are two different things in law. They are not connected so you really should continue with your payments, especially if your ex is in a low paid job as you have suggested.

Access is the right of the child not the parent.

You need to slow down and work with the system. You haven't been in your daughters life for 7 years - you can't just expect to be allowed back in as if you have always been there.

It's great that you would now like to be a part of her life but this needs to be on her and her mothers terms.
You need to look at this with your daughters welfare in mind. You are a stranger to her. You need to slowly build up some sort of relationship via the indirect contact you have been granted. You can't expect after this amount of time to just turn up and say "I'm here now - I want to be your dad".

Gooner

any more advice on the present?its her birthday next week

Hi Womak,

I think this has been answered by us all really, You need to go at the pace that suits your daughter and her mother.

You haven't been anyone to this little girl throughout her life, sending her a birthday present now won't make any difference to her as she doesn't know you, slowly building a relationship (if thats what you REALLY want) will mean that sending her a birthday present next year will actually mean somthing to her, rather than just maybe looking good for the judge when you go to court.

As has been said slow down and work with the system, don't do anything just to try and make yourself good front of the judge.

Darren

Anyone help??Should i send a gift?Will it help?

Sorry-i didnt realise there was 2pages,thanks for your help