[Solved] Final hearing what to expect?

thanks for that
i suppose im just worried abouthow it will all go i think its because i get legal aid she doesnt realy put the effort in.
dont know if i could represent myself in court i wouldnt know where to start.

Do the courts usualy only give the amount of contact cafcass reccomend?
ive applied for passport application form i didnt know i had to get mums signature. my solicitor said i dont have funding to bring it up in court think she was tryn to put me off.

that is a great idea about also traveling with her and grandad would of never tought of that.

Hi Scooby

I'm not sure what the procedure is for applying for a passport where your ex has residency, especially since it's not a UK passport - I don't think it's something you necessarily want to do without the court's knowledge, so I'd say that it does need to be raised in court. I suppose you could have all the forms ready, and assuming the court agree to your daughter travelling to Ireland, raise it there and then as an option to apply for a separate passport so no "mishaps" happen with the UK passport. With UK passports, someone (apart from family) needs to sign the back of the passport photo who knows your daughter (eg school teacher) so I'm not sure how you'll get this sorted, but the UK passport may help with this.

The situation with your solicitor isn't very helpful, I'd forgotten it wwas on legal aid, so changing solicitors isn't easy I believe, and unfortunately, because you have a solicitor, the CCLC can't give advice. I'm not sure how the funding works - but would it be feasible for you to represent yourself in court and have your solicitor do the paper work and help you with preparation? That way, you may be using the funding more efficiently - yoji has posted a good guide on representing yourself in court at the top of the legal section, so I'd have a read of this, and hopefully he may be able to give further advice when he's next on.

Thanks for that actd

Yes in ireland the Garda have to sign the back of the passport photos too. i have been onto the irish embassy in england and they are sending me out the application and information i need to apply they said its straight forward as she automaticly has irish citezenship because im irish. but i think i would have difficulties with mum agreeing but ill see how i get on with it.

Im hoping i get the same judge as she did ask mum at the last hearing to agree to allow my daughter come to ireland this month for christmas and told her if the cafcass report says the child should go to ireland. she will be going and to get used to it.
im applying for a defined contact order would i need to have my solicitor for this?
Also on the letter from the court it says my hearing is at 10.30 with duration time approx 3hrs but is placed on the continuous list so may not start untill afternoon and follow on till the next day. is there a reason for it to drag on so long?

i am going see if i can make an app with my solicitor and ask again about passport and if i can also ask to travel with my daughter and her grandad to bring her to ireland .as usual she prob just rush me off the phone.
i will have a look at yoji's guide now thanks

Hi Scooby

Don't forget, legal assistance or not, your solicitor works for you, not the other way around, so unless she can give you a good legal reason for not going for the passport, I'd push her to go for it. The more you can get covered in this hearing, the fewer times you will have to go back, which is always preferable. As for whether you can do the defined contact yourself, technically, there is no need to use a solicitor at all - the important thing, if you represent yourself, is to be totally prepared, and if you can have a funded solicitor helping, that may help but you'll get a lot of help here, especially from yoji who has done it himself.
With regards the passport, if you can get to the stage where you have everything your ex needs to sign at the next hearing, the court may well put pressure on your ex to sign there and then.

The timings on the court are never precise - if you dont get the first hearing of the day, then any cases before yours can easily overrun and push yours back, and if yours also overruns, it could then run into the following day quite easily.

Hi scooby,

To me it seems like things are slowly but surely working out. The main issue being that Court is starting to look at pushing results.

Generally speaking regarding a few of your questions:

3hrs for a hearing in my opinion (for a final hearing at least) is an optimistic one. There is a strong chance that you could well be there after 6pm. I would say its highly unlikely to drag on for the simple fact that in a manner of speaking Courts, provided there is no welfare or safeguarding risk would be unlikely to hinder a result further. The main issue i would say to watch out for is possibly a question along the lines of: "What assurances can you give to guarantee you bringing your daughter back over the Christmas period"... its a potential question. If you think logically about the questions you may be asked there's a good chance you'll hit the nail on the head.

Regarding your question as to a Defined Contact Order, then yes you are welcome to put forward the specification of Christmas or other such events i.e. Your Birthday or yearly holidays. Be aware that as Ireland requires either a ferry or plane flight a defined Order could be applied loosely in that holidays you have so many weeks.

Its also up to you how the arrangement arrives regarding collecting and returning your daughter. As you are the parent who is not the custodian i'll hazard the court will make sure you are the one to collect and return her. Regarding the Double-Barrel name i would approach this with a sense of caution. I would go from the direction that: 1) Your name is added to your daughters and that your ex's husbands surname being added as a double-barrel will result in the dropping of my name and this has been done at school [and if anywhere else say these]. I would therefore say for you to urge the Courts to not uphold this request on grounds that when you have tried accessing educational issues this has presented hurdles for you to overcome that should not at all be affected. 2) You could argue also that you feel that your daughter has had the potential to have strong influences from your ex to agree to the name change, thus you feel that there could be an erosion of her identity (something which the Courts should take very seriously) and 3) i would be constructive in the approach of proving that this double-barreling serves no purpose as to the benefit of the child and it is clearly (with evidence) a motive of mother to have this.

If you wish to ask for 2wks in summer i certainly would and i would say that the Court should "support me, her Father in being allowed as much time to eachother as possible" and also specify the other instances you would like.

Do not mention the granddad part.

In short this would not look bad. The fact is CAFCASS are there merely as a representative of the child in this case and in most instances follow what is best for the child. Courts however can be swayed away from CAFCASS recommendations if they feel there are no worries.

Thanks yoji
I am happy with how its goin so far and looking forward to bringing my daughter to ireland.

My solicitor is sayn to have a think about name change because cafcass said it what my daughter wants but i truly belive its only because of family members telling her thats her because her mam and stepdad got married. When i seen my daughter school books with only stepdads 2nd name i asked my daughter why was that name on book she said. Because mam and stepdad got married.

If my daughter told cafcass she wants her grandad or mam to bring her to visit me and cafcass say i should take on board my daughters wishes. Could i realy say no i want to collect and bring her to ireland on my own?

And for the defined contact order i was thinking on sayn the 2nd half of all school holidays with 2 weeks in the summer i will pick my daughter up from the early flight and drop her back early evening. I no it will be difficult with exact dates as holidays change but i was hoping this would work so mum knows im due to hav her them weeks.
Do you tink on short midterms they will let me bring her to ireland for 4 or 5 days after cafcass sayn it might interfere with school?

Thanks

Hi Scooby

OK, some more thoughts on this. Firstly, you don't want to go into court with a fixed position on anything, it's much better to have alternatives that you can negotiate with. This means that a) the court will think you are being reasonable, b) if you don't get what you first wanted, but do manage to get your fallback, you won't come out of court feeling that you've lost (it's more important than you might realise) and your ex won't think she's won (which means that she might then go on to make silly demands thinking she can get away with it). Yoji's point is a good one - imagine that the courts do agree with the most pessimistic parts of the Cafcass recommendations and have your position prepared so that you can come out with some safeguards.

So, with that in mind, looking at the issues in hand:
1. The Name change - express clearly why you are opposed to this, and cite any examples where it's caused difficulty. But then your negotiating position would be that if the court feel that the name change is in your daughter's interests, then you would like safeguards put in place, and state what they should be. Bear in mind that the court order should routinely say that no person can cause the child to be known by a new surname without agreement of everyone with PR or the consent of the court. If your daughter's name does become double-barrelled, I would say that dropping your surname from that in school is doing exactly this, so a warning from the court not to do this might be useful.
2. Main school holidays - one question is how likely is your ex to stick to agreements? If you think she may make life difficult, then maybe go for the start of the holidays, rather than the end. That way, if anything "unforseen" crops up, you have the flexibility to move it to later on in the holidays, whereas if you have then end of the holidays, you have nowhere to allow the dates to slip to.
3. Half terms - I'd go in with what you want initially, but as a fallback, have you considered taking holidays over in the UK, something like Center Parcs perhaps, or stay in a Travellodge near to your ex and go for days out with your daughter - it will cost you in accomodation, but it will save you travel costs for your daughter, and there's less argument that it's disruptive.
4. With regards your ex's father accompanying your daughter, again go with the position that you want to collect and return your daughter on your own, but have the fallback position that for the first two or three occasions, your ex's father can accompany you both.

Basically, go in initially with exactly what you want, but be prepared to negotiate.

Hi scooby,

Having alternatives is good. And a Court will see you as hard headed if you are over demanding.

I still think its highly likely your daughter has had pressure to change her name from her mother. I'm expressly against this double-barreling as you can tell and feel that this does not have any bearing whatsoever on the welfare or safeguarding of the child. Thus it should not be an issue to be considered. You are afterall involved with your child, make regular contact and try to provide the best support possible.

I would agree with actd's post about opting for the start of the holidays, given the flexibility.

In terms of the actual question of CAFCASS mentioning this may interfere with School, this is of course very simple to overcome. Just simply state that "as her Father, i would encourage her to bring her homework for me to support her with. It allows me to have an involvement in her education :-)"

. Just simply state that "as her Father, i would encourage her to bring her homework for me to support her with. It allows me to have an involvement in her education :-)"

Brilliant - that's pretty much impossible to argue against 🙂

Thanks Lads,

yous are a great help.
I was talking to my solicitor yesterday and asked her does she understand my wishes and will she support me dont think she likes me telling her what i want or want her to do but she said she can only advise me on what to do and if im not happy with it she will do what i want.
she still tinks i should tink about the name if its what my daughter wants she doesnt seem to care that i feel my daughter was told to ask for this. Ive told her from the start i wont agree to change it she knows how strongly i feel about it. I wonder if she just doesnt want to put up a fight at the final hearing does she want me to agree to everything my ex wants for an easy life.

Sure all i can do know is be prepared and hope for the best but i will keep yous updated thanks for everything.

alrite lads

just in the middle of doing my statement has to be done by the 16th most of you know my position and i was just wondering if anyone had any advice on getting approx times put into a defined contact order given that i live in ireland and my daughter in the uk and i have to fly over i know exact dates and times wont work as im looking for half of school holidays
to take place in first half of holidays. i need to get as close as possible with dates and time because agreeing with mum is very difficult and we still can agree time only through solicitors and its always what she wants. my flight is always first over and last home so i can spend as much time possible with my daughter the flight i get over is 8am so id like to pick her up around 10am but usualy its 12 as mum says 10 is to early and dropping off i ask id like it to be 5pm but mum says this is to late and wants her dropped off before 12pm. this realy annoys me as mum knows my flight home isnt until 9pm and id realy like to spend all the time i have in england with her as we only see eachother every 8 weeks. do you think i could ask in the defined contact order that i collect my daughter when i land in uk am and return her late afternoon so i can spend as much time possible if this isnt in the order mum will want me to return my daughter at 10am and were missing out on a whole day. do yous think im been unreasonable wanting to bring her back in the afternoon? what way would i say it in the statement?
thanks lads

alrite lads

Realy need ur advice my final hearing is in 3 weeks the other day my ex said that ther was no need for final hearing that she will agree to let my daughter visit me 3 times a yr in ireland even tho i would like 6 times a yr and for me to visit her weekend when i can afford it.
Because i wont agree to that she is know saying she is going to make sure the final hearing doesnt go ahead in feb that shes going to delay it.

have yous any idea how she might be able to delay or cancel the final hearing? she waited to tell me this known i already had booked my flights accomodation what can i do?
she also got a new number so i cant contact her about agreeing times for contact etc says i have to go through her solicitor that i can ring my daughters phone for phone contact and thats it. there was supposed to be skype contact after xmas as i bought my daughter a notebook but mam is saying she cant get it working even tho i had set it all up and tested it for her and when i asked when she was going to sort it she told me to f off and if i had of bought a better notebook it might work and shes just going to get the internet turned off in her house so i can never skype my daughter. i bought 2 notebooks one for each of my daughters and they are great and work perfect ther not top of the range but i paid 250 each for them. im so stressed.