[Solved] Final Hearing

As police diclosure has come back with nothing regarding DV and her legal team have dropped her as she cannot claim legal aid and that her two witnesses being close to her cannot be taken on face value as they are not impartial i personally would not be worrying.

i would point out all the above to the judge and provide evidence to suppor tthe no findings of DV by the police.
i would also point out that for 3 years everythign was going fine until she had the new fella and baby and cut all contact there and then.

Fingers crossed the judge will see it as plain as it looks to me.

thanks Dad-i-d for reply. after the final hearing, will it takes days, weeks or months for the contact to start/resume if the judge agrees to the contact.

As We really would like to start the contact ASAP as picking up from school if starts immediately.

However if doesnt start for a few weeks, it will be the start of the summer holidays and i am pretty sure the EX will not be playing nicely..... if the previous months are anything to go by.

You can't really predict how quickly it will happen, it depends on how the judge sees the case your son makes.

Factors they will consider include, how long as it been since he's seen the child, how often he was seeing the child before, and more importantly, how involved was he in the child's upbringing. If you're saying he hasn't seen the child since September last year, I think the court is unlikely to order everything he asks for straight away, I think you are more likely to get a progression building up to what you ask for over a few months time.

If your son is finding that level of hostility, make sure to ask for a very specific order that covers holidays, birthdays, Xmas, Father's/Mother's day, and also, if on the weekend he has the child, Monday is a bank holiday, he returns to school on Tuesday, not Monday.

Thanks Superprouddad. My son had contact with him every other weekend and one night in the week for 3 years. This was stopped in Oct 2017. Looking back he has not had much to do with his son’s every day care - only the contact days. He has always paid child care and he would baby sit at short notice if his ex wanted a night out. The contact has always been at my house, even when my son was not living here, as we have the space for my grandson to have his own room and his toys etc. His grandad would take him swimming every Tuesday hence the overnight previously during the week and his dad would then spend the night at ours with him. My son now lives full time with us and has taken a job with zero contract to allow more time in the future with his son.

Noted regarding the bank holidays - didn’t think of that. We have also asked for birthday, Christmas, Father’s Day and summer holiday contact.

The hearing is on the 12th June - so not long now and let’s hope the judge wants to give a young dad a chance to grow his relationship with his son.

Hi there

Youve done so well, I agree with both of the responses, just carry on what you're doing and concentrate on what is best for your grandson.

I would prepare a schedule of contact, making the point that previous contact included overnights and was consistent for over 3 yrs until the end of last year. I would go for a couple of weekends of full days and then start of overnights, perhaps just one night for the first couple of weeks and then straight into full weekends/midweek stays. That should bring it into effect by the end of summer term.

Its sometimes a good idea to ask for more than you would be happy with, as it gives you some wriggleroom in which to make compromises without giving up too much.

It would also be a good idea to prepare some cross examination questions, but as Dad-i-d says she has a personal relationship with the witnesses, which weakens it as evidence. Make sure he knows the content of their statements fully, so that he will be straight onit if their oral evidence/answers differs. Theres a sticky about cross examination at the top of the legal eagle.

Alternatively he can ask the judge to ask questions on his behalf if he feels nervous about it.

Thanks Guys.
I have just gone over all the witness statements (3) and have written bullet points for my son with a few questions for him to ask (or ask the judge to ask).
Breaking them down this way shows the -- shall we say-- "Un Truth's" in the statements. ie: my son kept his ex away from family and friends, isolating her - when in reality her best friend lived 2 doors away and her family lived across the road.

The questions i am finding hard are the questions to ask the EX - as it is all untruthful and without evidence.
ie: threw her down the stairs, controlled her, etc.. There are no police reports - only her best friend who says she witnessed various acts of violence.

Questions for the friend - i have mainly written - when did this happen, where and who was there? were the police called, was this reported. cant think of anything else to ask.

Questions to the EX - again pretty much as per above. Any advice of questions to ask?

I, personally, have loads of question i would put to her, but are not for the judge's ears!!

Absolutely gutted. Judge ordered ZERO Contact. He believed my sons EX was controlled and threatened even with police disclose coming back with no DV. Dropped by her legal as no DV.

She cried and sobbed. And got what she wanted. She had her best friend as a witnesss who claimed to see constant acts of DV. BUT HER STEP DAD who lives across the road from the EX. Didn’t see any.

Where do we go from here. PLEASE HELP. I am absolutely stunned that the judge ordered NO CONTACT.

Im sorry to hear about this outcome.

Has there been findings of fact on any of the allegations at any of the hearings?

Has the mother or your son requested one, and if denied, was there good reason given by the Judge for not pursuing this? It is not the parties obligation to raise the matter with the judge, he/she must identify and address, without being invited, the seriousness of DV allegations and the need or not for fact finding, depending on whether the result of such findings would be likely to influence the decision.

One assumes that electing to not pursue one implies the allegations were perhaps not serious enough, or not substantiated enough to proceed to fact finding, or that they would likely not substantially affect the outcome of the case even if found, etc...

If no fact finding has taken place I can not see on what basis there could be an order for no direct contact at all?

Indeed if (serious)allegations are to influence a judgement as drastically as to refuse any direct contact, then surely very good reasons would be required to be given by the judge in electing not to pursue fact finding on these. In fact I fail to see how such an order could be made without fact finding on such allegations, if indeed these are the reason for the order for no contact?

Even if some allegations were found to be true in fact finding or during one of the hearings, they would need to be of a certain level and nature for contact to be denied completely.

Do you have the judgement?

You may find this helpful:

http://www.coramchambers.co.uk/media/Publications/Domestic_Violence_Handout_Website.pdf

Chapter

There was a fact findings and police disclosure report was asked for by her legal rep. The police disclosure came back with no DV. Her legal team then dropped her case due to no DV, so could not continue with legal aid.

The EX had pages of DV with images of a black eye and a scratch to her face. No medical back up or police reports. Her Witness claims to have seen numerous attacks.

The EX claimed he abducted his son - which was untrue. He picked him up from EX house and took him to nursery by her asking. He arrived early, she sent the child out and my son put him in his car seat and drove off. She called the nursery to say he has left without a car seat and his coat and without permission to leave. The judge said this was very serious and shows that he wanted to scare and control the EX by showing he can take the child.

We have not seen any CASCAF reports.

The other witness was her step dad who said he had not seen any violence only what the EX has told him. (he lives across the road from EX).

The EX had a statement from my sons previous partner (the partner after he split with the ex) which was unsigned and on speaking to the other partner she has not submitted. However at the final hearing their appears a statement which is signed. I have spoken to my sons previous partner - who says she has never given a statement or signed one. So the EX must have made the statement up and just signed in the other partners name. The other partner is not willing to go to court or wants nothing to do with this case as she has moved on and is happy with her new partner. So cannot get her to tell the judge that this is all false. The false statement claims he beat the partner and hurt her daughter - which is not true.

Judge says he has seen this is the past and DV victims do not go to the police and my sons is a controlling, manipulative man and due to the amount of DV claims from the EX he has go with that these are true. Hence Zero Contact Order.

We are just shocked... as their is no outside proof that this is the case and my son is not been convicted or charged with any DV.

Just dont know what to do next. We dont have the money for legal advice and feel that Zero Contact is very wrong, when he was seeing his son regularly over the past 4 years.

The Fact Finding hearing was in the morning and the decision was made in the afternoon on the same day. The case was due to be a 2 day hearing but was dropped to 1 day hearing due to their only being 6 allegations and 2 witnesses.

After FFH in the morning - the judge found the allegations to be true.

FYI