[Solved] Ex's family interfering

The other thing I should have asked is - When is the best time to start getting the wheels into motion? Given that my ex is due in July/Early August?

Hi

First off, welcome to Dadtalk. I hope you find the answers to your questions here.

I'm sorry that your ex has recently dumped you again after you seemed to have patched things up at Christmas. I don't suppose there is any chance of you and she getting back together and I wonder if this is something you and she would consider? Clearly for the sake of your unborn baby, whatever the outcome, it would be best if you and your ex are at least on speaking terms.

There is still some considerable time before your baby is due and I wonder if you would consider mediation as a first port of call, rather than going down the legal route. I'm not trying to stick up for your girlfriend, but she is pregnant and her hormones will be all over the place right now, she may be just as shocked about this forthcoming baby as you were initially, even though you say this was something you both wanted. She may not be thinking straight right now.

If mediation is something you want to consider then you can get advice through the Familly Mediation Helpline on 0845 60 26 627 http://www.familymediationhelpline.co.uk

As for her mum, don't get into rows with her if it can be avoided. I know she has said some hurtful things to you but in the long run it doesn't do anyone any good and will only make a fragile situation worse.

I know you have spoken to solicitors but I will forward your post to our legal experts for their response. This will take a few days and in the meantime you can call Families Need Fathers on 0300 0300 3643, http://www.fnf.org.uk for their advice.

I hope this helps.

Hi Mikey

Thanks for getting back to me...:)

I haven't ruled out the hormones, no, in all honesty, and a number of people have said the same thing..She may calm down in a couple of weeks, I dont know...

I would consider getting back together, so long as we could sort out the issues between us..namely her mum, but I won't got there!..but I do want it to be sorted amicably (i.e. not legal) if we can at least do that..We had a fantastic relationship, up until recently...

As for her mum, I'm keeping my nose clean..that was the intention all along...Granted, I've got my faults, and some of those may have caused it all, but she is the catalyst for everything that has happened..and as I said in my previous message, I wouldn't put it past her to get in the way, or convince my ex, that I should have nothing to do with this child.

Thanks for passing my message on to the legal team,I await their information, and will follow up on the links you sent me..

Thanks

Mark

Sent at: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:41 pm
From: ChildrensLegalCentre

Dear Mark,

To be named on the birth certificate initially, you will require the consent of the mother, and would need to be present when the child’s birth is being registered to be named, and the mother would not be able to name you if you were not.

If the mother refuses to name you, you are not able to have this changed without her consent unless you gain a court order. The court would almost certainly grant an order for you to be on the birth certificate, even if this requires DNA testing to prove that you are the biological father.

By being named on the birth certificate you would automatically gain Parental Responsibility, which gives you the legal right to a say in the child’s upbringing.

Although it is advisable that you pay maintenance where possible as it can show a further commitment to your child, this has no legal bearing on contact. The law sees maintenance and contact as completely separate subjects, and whether or not you are paying maintenance should have no impact on whether or not you see your child.

When you do begin to pay maintenance it is advisable to keep proof of this, for example, by paying it into a bank account, through the CSA or having the mother write you receipts for this, so it can not be claimed later that you do not contribute.

When it comes to contact with your child, no parent has a right to see their children, it is children who have the right to see their parents. As your child will be unable to make decisions for their self until they are at least a teenager, it falls to the parent that the child lives with to make these decisions.
In this case the mother would be able to control any and all contact that you have with your child legally.

If you are not happy with the contact that she allows you, then the first step is to attempt mediation with the mother, which involves you meeting with a mediator and trying to negotiate an agreement that you are both happy with.
This is an agreement and therefore not enforceable and you or the mother can change this at any time, however it is always best to attempt this method first as this can be used in court to show you have attempted to negotiate with the mother.

If you can not reach an agreement, the mother refuses mediation or you are still not happy, then you have the right to apply to court for a contact order. This is a legally binding order that stated the days and times you are to see your child and the mother can be penalised if she breaches this.

Initially it is likely that contact will be quite often but for short periods of time, and this would be likely to increase in the future to longer periods of time further apart. Consideration would also be given to the baby’s routine and feeding patterns, especially if the mother is breast feeding. Both yours and the mother’s arguments would be heard by the court.

The court are in favour of contact between a child and both parents when it is safe to do so, however the amount of contact is something the judge must decide upon based on what they believe to be best for the particular child.

An injunction or order to keep you away from the child or the mother can only be granted if there is reason for this, so for instance if you were harassing or threatening the mother, and generally some form of proof would be required for this to be successful.
Any allegations made against you can be heard in the court, and the court will decide whether this should affect any contact that you have with the child; however it would have to be a serious reason to affect any contact you may be granted.

At present you are able to seek mediation with the mother, and National Family Mediation is able to help with this. Their contact number is 01392 271610.
Should you require the matter to go to court, you are not able to make any applications for this until the child is born, as the child is not considered a person until this time in the eyes of the law, although you can prepare any paperwork and gain a solicitor before this if you wish to, no applications can be made to the court until after the birth.

We hope this information is useful to you, should you require any further advice please contact the Child Law Advice Line on 0808 8020 008 and an advisor will be happy to help you.

Kind Regards

Children’s Legal CentreThe Children's Legal Centre
Free Legal Advice on 08088 020 008
Dadtalk Legal AdvisorsChildrensLegalCentre

Thanks for posting that Mikey..I guess its both good and bad...

Hi again Mark

I hope you found the advice helpful and it gives you a clearer picture of what you might have to face in the future. If you can find a way forward through mediation it is going to save you a lot of aggravation isn't it.

would consider getting back together, so long as we could sort out the issues between us..namely her mum,

and I wonder if you and your ex would consider going to counselling say at Relate? You can call them on 0300 100 1234, and their website http://www.relate.org.uk tells you more about them and the help on offer.

HI again Mikey

Yeah...its an option

A number of people have said that I should get in touch, as its probably her hormones, and confusion, etc...and that whilst it might take time and effort, she *might* come round, and if we get ourselves back on speaking terms, then that might help...

Its funny..I said leave her be...and a lot of people have said 'go after her - shes hurting'..she took me off FB, and some people said 'thats because you didnt go back to her fast enough' - I've left her a voicemail, and a text..Its going to be a long road, but she means that much to me 🙂 )

I'm still hopeful we can sort this without it getting messy, in all honesty...will keep you posted!

Well...I moved in the day after my last post..she pretty much demanded that I did the week before, but I said no....

I then made contact, and she said 'turn up' - so I did...over the last few months, things have been up and down, and I've got the feeling that her mum had never really let me off what had happened in November/December..

Things were up and down over the last few months - don't want to go into it here, but as my partner wasnt working, and I was jobless (but looking) - I had to watch the pennies, but paid my way as much as I could by doing the shopping, etc..I thought I was doing OK. I did eventually find work though 🙂

The house needed some work, and I was prepared to put some money into the house..unfortunately it seemed they wanted me to pretty much pay all of it...THis lead to the argument, which pretty much ended our relationship on Friday night...some of her family got involved, there was some violence (unfortunately the only witnesses were her daughters..so no chance of going for a charge there)

Question is what do I do now...one of her sisters said as I was leaving "you do realise you'll never see this child ever again" - It seems the child was only ever a bargaining tool...If i didnt pull weight, they used the baby as the reason, and so on..

Given how things were, I am in half-a-mind to cut my losses, and walk away, as things weren't truly right I don't ever think they really were!..and plus they are pretty determined to cut me out of this childs life, and if they were violent just to try and remove me from a house....I hate to think what they'd do to keep me out of her life... But theres part of me that wants to fight this..and prove that they don't rule over me!

All advice greatful..I'll try and post something more coherent in a day or two...LOL 🙂

HI again all

I've had a think, and I've decided I will fight 🙂

Ideally (isn't it the way!) I'd like to sort this amicably, and so, my intention is to write a letter to my ex (as e-mails are probably blocked, and easily deletable!) and suggest that we sort this amicably for the sake of our (as yet unborn) child..I don't want to take it legal, really..because I know that that could get messy..Mainly because her family will make sure of it!

The biggest hurdle, at the moment, will be getting my name on the birth certificate, her mum definitely wont allow it, and the only way I can see that will happen, is through a court-order. I am prepared to pay maintenance, and whilst I know that paying maintenance doesn't guarantee visitation, or the ability to see your child..but I know it counts in your favour..

I guess what I'm saying here, is that, based on everything thats here, I'm going to try the non-legal route first, and see where that takes me, bvut at the same time I've got to consider whats in front of me, and how the legal route could turn out..can I be completely stopped from seeing or having access to my child?..why is it (from what I've heard ) that I could end up paying maintenance, but still not having access..

I'll probably have some more q's as things roll on!

Mark

The first step should be mediation, so I would suggest this in your letter, and keep it simple - don't raise any other issues - the main purpose of the letter is to try to get her to go to mediation and once there, then you can raise any issues you have.

Cheers for that, actd....I'll keep it simple (its not written yet..lol!).....but I will keep you posted 🙂

Hi again

I'm sorry to hear that things seem to have gone from bad to worse for you and your ex and that her family have threatened to completely block you from seeing your child in the future. It sounds as if your ex's mother has a lot of influence within the family, which doesn't help.

Of course the one who will suffer here is your child, who is the innocent victim in all of this and it would be best if he/she grew up knowing he/she has a father who loves and wants to be an involved dad as they grow up.

It may help you to talk it all through with Families Need Fathers who will understand the issues here. You can call them on 0300 0300 363, http://www.fnf.org.uk

I hope this will help you.

Cheers Mikey

I will take all that on board. I know it might look bad, as I ended the relationship, but I seriously couldnt take any more...as I said...her mum was the 'third-person', and this didnt help anything...no matter what I did, it want good enough!..Oh yeah..she has a lot of influence alright, they're all frightened to go and do anything other than what she tells them...regardless of whether its right or wrong!

I will give FNF a call 🙂

THanks again

Mark

Just a quick update

Lette went last week, thinking back, should have sent it recorded..lol...however, given the state of my handwriting, I printed an address label, and at the moment, I've not heard squat...so shes either binned it, burnt it, or (according to a few female friends) is thinking it over...

Will keep you all posted...but have got to think about my next step now, and at the moment, I've got to give it some serious thought

Hi again

Hope you hear something positive back from your ex soon, fingers crossed. Even though you and your ex are no longer together you can still be an involved dad and it would be in your child's best interests to grow up knowing who his/her father is and that they love and care for him/her. Do talk to Families Need Fathers because they really will understand the issues here and can give you the support and advice you need right now.

Hang in there.

You are right that you should have sent it recorded, but don't worry. Start a file (if you haven't already) and put a copy of your last letter in it. If she doesn't reply within a reasonable period (and that has probably already passed), then send a 'final' letter, requesting a response within, say, 7 days of receipt, and make sure you send this recorded. You also said that you were in quite a state when you wrote it - it's easier said than done, but try to be calm when you write the letter - or write it, then leave it for a day and go back to it - at this stage, you want to be as reasonable as possible, and if it goes to court later on, you need to be seen as the one who is acting reasonably and responsibly. This is one of the reasons why solicitors are so good if you can afford them, they are not personally involved and that detachment stops emotion getting in the way (though my ex did test my solicitor's patience on numerous occasions 😆 ).

Hi actd

THanks for the reply..I'd actually said that my handwriting is quite bad 🙂 ) ..lol

I have kept a copy of the letter, and a file has been started!...I will send another letter, but I'm thinking of hanging on until after the birth (for reasons too long to go into here) so that should make things a little easier, and I might get a response..

The original one took about a month, including all the back and forth between a few people...which may have been a good thing, it may have been bad...however, I wanted to keep this letter as neutral, and non-confrontational as possible, and certainly not pass on any blame...so I wrote a framework, and got people to help me!

I have got solicitors on board, and shall be speaking to them in the coming weeks 🙂 ...but yes, I intend to act reasonably responsibly!...

D'oh - handwriting!! Yep, I got that wrong

I'll let you off 😀 D

Mark

Ok...so an update.. 🙂 )

I have been advised to attempt contact at least once more, before we move things forward..

I did send a card, and asked if she could get in touch..but she hasn't..hence why I'm advised contact once more 😐

I am seriously considering turning up, but taking someone with me, not just as a witness, but to be my 'voice of reason' in case things go wrong....On talking to a few people, and boucing it round other forums, I get all manner of responses, but the main one is that it'll be seen as confrontational....The thing is I can't go up there alone..I am 99% certain she doesn't have the same mobile number, and she rarely answers her home phone 🙁 ..I am aware that some of her family have moved in, in order to help look after my daughter..something that obviously I should be doing!

The only remaining avenue is a letter, or another card..but I get the feeling that they will be binned, and ignored..then it'll be pushing things to the next step...A road I really don't want to go down if I can help it, as it'll make me out to be the bad guy..and I already look bad enough at the moment!..I've had a [censored] of a slating on another forum over this 🙁

Failing that its a phone call...

If I turn up, whether I've got a witness or not, some are saying this could be construed as harassment..
I guess I'm damned if I do, and damned if I dont 🙁

Ideas?

Don't turn up - it WILL be seen as confrontational, not only by your ex, but also by the courts - and you really to be confrontational in front of you child, and for a court to be told that you did this.

Write a letter to your ex asking for contact - if necessary supervised until she is happy that things are going well. Keep it simple, and polite and don't accuse or blame.

HI Actd

Guess it looks like the letter then 😐 |

But the thing is, my first letter got no response, card..no response..Text..No response (not even sure shes got the same number)..any letter I send now...whether recorded or not..will probably just get ignored..

Oh well..

Probably worth sending recorded - at some point, there's a strong possibility that you are going to have to go to court in the future, so you may as well have evidence that you sent a letter and that you got no response - all helps to pain a picture of how your ex is behaving. From now on (as well as being in the best interest of your child) you have to consider what your actions will look like to a judge to give yourself the best chance in court.

Surely the recorded thing only works if they sign for it?...If they don't they can easily say that they never received it!..or do the posties have to record if the recipient refuses to sign?

Oh yeah...its all about showing that I did things right..but have I made more of a rod for my own back by keeping away for 2 months..Mind you, that was just to ensure that she remained calm, and delivered baby safely, and stress free 🙂

Thing is I've got a zillion things going round and round in my head at the moment..and I'm just worried about the outcome

Never occurred to me that she may refuse delivery - but even so, you'll have proof that you posted it, and if the post office can confirm she refused delivery, she'd have to have a very good reason why.

Staying away for 2 months isn't 2 bad - as you say, you were letting things calm down a little and you are trying to keep in contact. There's obviously no guaranteed outcome, but unless there is a danger to the child, courts normally consider that contact with both parents is the best outcome for a child, and don't forget that it's the child that is their primary consideration, not that of the parents.

HI Actd

Thanks for putting my mind at rest!....I did'nt intend to chuck a spanner in the works..LOL..but thats the most likely outcome, she'll just refuse to accept the letter...

The contact was mainly a letter, a card when I knew the baby was born, and 2 texts - but I think shes changed her number, and as I say, she rarely answers her home phone 🙁

The only issue I've got is various family members are pulling the strings (as per original post) - and they'll be convincing my ex to not attend court, ignore court orders etc..So they'll aim to look at dragging this out as much as possible, in the hope i'll give up (like **** I will)

Thanks again 🙂