Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:
Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.
Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.
If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help
Hi,
I've posted a couple of times before and now I'm back with updates and needing a bit more advice. My original thread is below, if it helps explain the background:
<!-- l 27/1898/viewtopic-php<!-- l
I've submitted the contact order to the court and so I'm waiting for them to give me a date and take it from there. However, in the meantime my ex now informs me that:
She's planning on taking Ellie away to China for 6 months, where she's planning on finishing her degree
She's then planning on moving to North Yorkshire (we all currently live in the west midlands, approx 20 mins from eachother) where her brother lives with him family, and setting up a new life there.
Now, I think I'm right in saying that because I have parental responsibility I can stop her from taking ellie to China, and for this I need to apply for a prohibitive steps order using the C100 again. Is this right, and if so, do I submit that now or do I have to wait until the contact order is sorted first?
Secondly, what can I do about her moving so far away? Obviously my main reason for wanting to prevent this is because if she did move away I'd only see Ellie once or twice a month with a 6 hour round trip in between. I wouldn't be able to take her to school or have her in the week, like I do now and have done for 5 years. But also, I feel that this will be disruptive for a 9 year and also detremental to not have her dad around.
Her reasons for weanting to move up there are to be close to her family (her mum, Ellie's nan, is also moving up) and because it's a better place to live than Birmingham (better schools, less crime etc). I have said that she can come and live with me as I live in a semi-rural area with low crime and great schools, but this was met with short shrift! I asked her to consider Ellie in all this, as she is aware what's going on and was crying that she doesn't want to move away, but her response was that she's put Ellie's needs first for years and now needs to start putting her own first!
I would add that she's been threatening to move away for a long time, and during our recent 'disagreements' she's used this as a bribe, ie, "if you don't do this, we're moving away" etc.
Any advice on what I can do and how I would do it will be much appreciated.
EDIT - PS - I should add that the contact order I've asked for is for me to have Ellie on tuesdays, as normal, and Friday afternoon until Monday morning every other weekend. I'm hopeful of this getting agreed because I feel that it's in Ellie's best interests that she doesn't witness her mum starting arguments with me (I wouldn't have to see her as I'd pick Ellie up from school on Friday afternoon and drop her at school Monday morning). If this did get agreed, how would her moving 3 hours away be viewed by the court? There's no way we'd be able to stick to the contact order if she was that far away.
Hi Tim,
You can apply for a prohibitive steps order to prevent your ex taking your daughter out of the country without your consent. I've never done it, so not sure how successful these things are.
You would then have to look at making an application to the court for residency of your daughter. This is usually quite difficult as courts do not like to remove a child from one environment to another unless they are at risk. However I notice that your daughter is nearly ten, which is an age were most courts would actually take her opinion on board as to what she wants to do and where she wants to be. DIscuss the issue with your daughter and if she wants to stay with you and be near her friends then you can take the matter further.
Be prepared for your ex to make life as difficult for you as possible! I'm not sure whether mediation would be of any use, but perhaps you could contact the Children's Legal Centre (CLC) about what you should do next?
Apparently she's not going to China now, Ellie's told her she doesn't want to!
The problem with applying for residency is that a) I hate the thought of Ellie having to make a choice about who she lives with and b) I don't think she'd be honest about it anyway. She often says that she can't say/do something because it upsets her mum, so she's very protective of her. Her mum never asks her about what we've got up to together or what Ibiza was like etc, it's ridiculous.
Is there any likelyhood of a court ruling that she can't move away? If not, is there any point me even trying?
Are there any previous examples of similar cases?
Hi Tim
A contact order would state that the parent with care couldn't remove a child from the country for more than 30 days, so if she persisted in wanting to move to China for 6 months, she'd have to ask the court for permission to do this. However, fortunately, it sounds like this isn't a problem now.
May be a little sneaky, but why don't you suggest you your ex that she goes to China for 6 months, and leaves your daughter with you? At the end of 6 months, you could apply for a residence order on the basis that she's settled with you, especially if your ex is thinking of moving her away from her friends, and partway through a schoolyear.
You have very little chance of success in preventing your ex moving to another part of the country, the only reason a court would normally prevent this is if they feel that she is doing this solely to prevent contact or to make it difficult, but since your ex has family there, she could very easily argue that she has a genuine reason to move.
Hi Tim
A contact order would state that the parent with care couldn't remove a child from the country for more than 30 days, so if she persisted in wanting to move to China for 6 months, she'd have to ask the court for permission to do this. However, fortunately, it sounds like this isn't a problem now.
May be a little sneaky, but why don't you suggest you your ex that she goes to China for 6 months, and leaves your daughter with you? At the end of 6 months, you could apply for a residence order on the basis that she's settled with you, especially if your ex is thinking of moving her away from her friends, and partway through a schoolyear.
You have very little chance of success in preventing your ex moving to another part of the country, the only reason a court would normally prevent this is if they feel that she is doing this solely to prevent contact or to make it difficult, but since your ex has family there, she could very easily argue that she has a genuine reason to move.
I did she I'm happy for her to leave Ellie with me for 6 months…that didn't get the appreciation I expected!!
I understand what you're saying about her moving for family reasons, although she has said to me many times that she's moving away because of me, I know she'll play the innocent card in court.
So would the court not take the opinion that Ellie's dad, step family, cousins, grandparent, aunty and school friends around here are reason enough to prevent her from moving away?
Hi Tim
In my opinion (and it's only an opinion), that wouldn't be enough reason for a court to prevent a move unless you can provide evidence that she's said she's moving because of you. Ultimately, a court would have to have a good reason to prevent your ex from moving, and it's very difficult for them to do that in todays environment. It would probably be worth going to mediation (and possibly to court) anyway to get contact defined if she does move, and you may be able to get a clause in the order about your ex sometimes bringing your daughter to you, rather than you always having to do the travelling. If you don't have a solicitor, then it would be worth giving the Children's Legal Centre a call for a more definitive answer on this one.
Hi,
I've now had a date for the 'first directions hearing' and need to serve Ellie's mum with the papers. Just reading through the 'about this notice' part and it says 'if you want to apply for an order in respect of any children named on the notice, fill in form C2'
Any idea what a C2 is for? I've searched online and can't really find anything. I thought that by filling in C100 I'd done everything I need to by now.
Hi,
Try this link: http://www.thecustodyminefield.com/CourtForms.html
It lists each form with a description of what each form is for. I think you also need to read form CB1 if you haven't already.
Welcome to the DAD.info forum.
We don’t like to set ‘rules’, but to make sure that you and the other dads are kept safe, we have some requests. When engaging with the forum, please be aware of the following:
- The forum is not moderated 24 hours per day.
- Many of the moderators do so on a voluntary basis. Whilst they may be able to provide some guidance, advice or support, they may not be able to deal with specifics.
- We are not an emergency crisis service so if you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call emergency services.
- If you are concerned about the safety of a child, please click here to find the support you can get for them (link to new page)
- If you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123. They are open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.
We hope you find this forum a supportive environment and thank you for joining us.