[Solved] dont know, can you help, lots of content

The situation you’re in is so similar to too many of us unfortunately….the mother of our children tell us what to do…when and how to do it and we just have to accept it if we want a “quiet life” or to see our kids at all!!!

It stinks! It really does……but the facts are we are the kids fathers and we have very little rights in our children’s lives when it comes to the crunch…..if we really had any rights and be able to defend ourselves without the fear of not being able to see our kids for long periods…..then we’d not need pressure groups like Fathers4Justice around!! Or people like Bob Geldof trying to raise the plight of so many of us decent fathers out here just trying to do what is really in the best interest of our kids lives….having their fathers play a full and active part…….not just a cash machine for the mothers!

Ok just so I’m not seen as being sexist or against all mothers here I’ll add the RP or PWC to that as there are some fathers out there with care doing the same to the mothers.

The majority of us fathers out here would drop everything to spend just a few extra minutes/hours…moments with our kids…..i know I would rather spend five mins with my little boy than without him if I got the chance.

So what are your options?
As I see this you have a few available to you:

1. Try appealing to the ex, try speaking with her.
2. Try writing to her explaining things should be more structured for the stability for the kids knowing where they are going to be, flexibility has to be in there as there is always going to be something neither you or your ex can get out of….working away, appointments etc…
3. Mediation, trying to get your ex to see another “normal” point of view rather than “her way or the highway” as a lot of ex’s basically tell us!

The legal route has to be a last resort in my opinion, my own situation is 1,000,000% worse for taking legal action than I ever could imagine it would get to.

1. Mediation is the first thing the courts will ask if you have tried.
2. Apply for a defined contact order or residence order.
3. If all goes well then you’ll not get the [censored] that many of us are now tied up in. if it doesn’t then prepare to possibly be fighting for years not weeks/months….YEARS!!!

The biggest issue you have as have I had since way before I left my ex…..is getting them to understand that you should have a say in your children’s lives…..that there are always compromises to be made on both sides…….and that parenting is both parents working together for the children….not one controlling the other by using the threat of not letting them see their kids!!

If anyone could ever get that through to my ex….then that person should be knighted!!!

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Thank you dad-i-d

I appreciate your length reply, its good to talk to people in the same/similar/ worst cases than me its very unfortunate that its like this at all, at the moment i feel like a baby sitter and a bank, but there is also a lot of 'ask your dad, im poor and hard dune by' going on so the kids only seem to get in touch with me when they actually want something (they both have mobile phones bought and paid for by me to help with communication), whether that's normal as kids go it may be or worse because of her influence im not sure but it hurts at times. there are lots of factors in all this and I hate how complicated it has to be.

i just feel like I'm a bad person all the time no matter what i do, if i do something good its counteracted to make me look bad its this bullying and mind games, ive often thought about running away and the kids would be better off without me in their life and just to get away from all the heartache that's cased because of the way i feel im treated, if any one asked my ex she would be doing nothing wrong and its my fault, i understand that there are two sides to every story but does that make mine the wrong one. i seem to just be plodding through life waiting for the years to pass by where less and less contact will be needed with her and i can just enjoy the kids and they can enjoy me without the influence of their mother, but its no way to life, i feel ever so sorry for my partner having to put up with this and the problems/heartache it all brings even after all these years

Thanks again
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Thank you for the advice you have given, i will certainly consider what you have said and look in to things,

Sometimes talking things through here has help me get myself in a more positive frame of mind….i’m not meaning to sound condescending here…at least your getting to see your kids.

Your ex seems to be in the same mould as many are….does someone just tell them how best to hurt us?
I feel that as soon as we leave they are taught how to manipulate and hurt us with the only thing they can……the kids!
They know that we don’t love or respect them any more….but they also know that most of us would do absolutely anything to see our kids and be involved in our kids lives!
This is the only way they can keep you under their control…..and that’s all it is about…Control!!

Someone out there is not telling them that what they are doing is wrong and is not in the best interest of the kids…….someone out there is telling these people how to make you pay and how to keep you doing what they want!!!

Most advice/information I’ve read from people trying to help fathers see their kids or get more contact with them seems to be focused on the children and what the law says and what is “reasonable” for a father to expect and the children to be put first.
I’m not getting the feeling that this is what happens on “mother only sites” I’ve not researched this side of things but may one day if I can find the time.

If you need support from other fathers come speak on here….i’ve found this site a great help to just get things off my chest and vent off……its helped a lot to prevent me bottling it all up and feeling like I was breaking down.
I am still battling to see my child through some shocking and proven false claims over the last 3yrs…I get knocked back from time to time but it is getting easier to deal with as I know she’s running out of excuses and road….the courts will eventually have to do something.

And if not then it goes on to High Court and on and on and on………I feel at times I should just give up and concentrate on myself……but I owe it to my son not to….and to stay there for him so she doesn’t get the satisfaction of saying I left him too!

Keep ya chin up……and stay strong for your kids…….you have options to deal with you ex….use them within the law though!

Hi again AP 🙂

I just want to reassure you that you will only ever be treated with respect here. I 've read your story and can feel your pain, and I understand how ground down you feel. As I see it the big issue is the lack of control you have over your situation and that of your children. Dad-i-did is right when he says that the law is biased towards the mother, that certainly seems to be the "norm".... But its not always the case, and I would argue that we dont hear about the many success stories on here, as its Dads that are struggling that find their way here.

I want to tell you that you are not a bad person, you are a person in a bad situation. Your children need you in their lives, and their lives are enriched because you are there. Being a parent can be a thankless task sometimes and you need deep pockets and the skin of a rhino! That applies whether you are an NRP or not!

You talk about being the weaker person, but I want to disagree with you...you have stuck by your children, you support them financially and emotionally because you never speak badly about their mother or put them in the firing line, and in your own words you keep them well away from any tension....it takes a strong person to do that. You have a relationship that is working regardless of all the problems, and you are providing for all the people you love....thats quite a feat! I wanted to point these things out to you just to show you that far from being weak and a failure you have hidden depths and inner strength, you've just lost sight of yourself.

So...lets address some of the things you've written about. My first suggestion is to buy a cheap mobile phone and use this for communicating with your ex. You shouldn't be at her beck and call, or feel sick when you receive a txt from her, dont give her direct access to you anymore. Give her the new number and check it at a time and place of your choosing, its just a small but important first step towards reclaiming control.

As far as having to have the children at the drop of a hat, or expected to change your plans at a moments notice....no, this shouldnt be happening....of course if having them from time to time doesnt cause you any issues and you are available, then no problem, but if it interferes with your work or your "other" life then you have to draw a line....saying no when it cant be helped doesnt make you a bad person, or something you should feel guilty for. You have a right to a life my friend, and its not unreasonable to expect that when your ex wants you to look after the children if she has an appointment or something, that she to gives you fair notice.

I think its time you take control and start getting your point across....you sound to me like a kind, generous and fair minded man who's had enough of being taken advantage of, but is so demoralized that you cant see the wood for the trees anymore....this is where Mediation might really help. Mediation will provide you with the platform to be able to set some ground rules, to talk through the concerns you have, and with the help of a trained Mediator clear out all the dead wood and get some clarification, and hopefully some agreement going forward. Heres a link to the Mediation service, there is a charge for this service but if it works it will be a small price to pay!

www.nfm.org.uk

If this doesnt work or your ex refuses to attend then the next step would be to apply to court for a defined Contact Order. Theres lots of information about this on here...if you go to the top of the Legal Eagle section you'll find a couple of stickys. The first is called "Contact Order C100 Guide" and explains all about the C100 form which is the form you would need to fill out and submit to court. This costs £200 but that is a tiny fraction compared to the cost if you were to use the services of a solicitor. Many Dads choose to self represent and the other sticky is called "A Guide to Representing Yourself in Court" and has some useful information about the court process.

I think once you start to be more pro active and begin to take control of your situation you will start to feel better about yourself. You do have rights, you have the right to be involved in decisions about your childrens education, the school has a duty to keep you informed and a simple letter to the school to remind them of this is all thats required. You should be kept informed of any medical treatment too, in fact anything that impacts on the childrens lives. This you can discuss at Mediation.

If you do have to go to court, then as you have had consistent and regular access to your children there wont be any problem getting this agreed in court. You can ask for a timetable of contact that encompasses school holidays, christmas and birthdays. Having your contact defined in this way helps to bring a certain stability into the equation. You can ask that you be informed and your consent needed for important decisions about schooling... You are of equal importance in your childrens lives as your ex, and once that is recognized I hope that you can regain some confidence and self esteem... and the calm and peaceful life you crave and deserve!

Best of luck with everything and remember its good to talk 🙂

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Hi

Thank you so so much for the detailed replies you have offered above, I appreciate your kind words...

I really want to do something to stop all this, I love seeing my kids and want to see them more if I could but it’s not always that easy.

As you know I got a text the other day about buying them clothes for their summer camp which I had no involvement in at all... Everyone is telling me I shouldn’t have to buy them clothes for their camp because it had nothing to do with me; I buy them the clothes they need for when they are in my care!

I have had another text today about Easter, she is taking them to Egypt but obviously the Easter holiday is longer than a week so when it comes to my Friday to have the kids for my weekend I would normally collect them from after school club but in this case they will be at home but she is telling me she has a course to go to on that Friday and that I should make arrangements for the care of the kids, now as it happens I should be able to sort this by involving other family members but people are having to change plans to suit and I feel awful asking them to do this when it’s really to help her out and not the kids.. it seems to be the more I go out my way to 'help her' the more she is asking of me and it put so much pressure on me, my partner and my family.. I have found if she has a new partner (there have been many) I never hear from her but when she is on her own she is constantly at me. Of course I want to have my kids as much as possible but I would like it to be on my terms and to suit me, is that unreasonable?

I don’t know how I can stop this constant contact with her, I hear nothing about the kids, if there is something at school, out of school, illness or anything I’m just not involved but when it come to care she is constantly on at me, I feel I’m being treated unfairly but am I?? is it me being unreasonable, I know it must be hard for her but I don’t see her life / work commitments are my problem and I should find care for the kids or again am I the one being unreasonable??

She is very clever and has had a lot of dealings with the 'system' she use to help single mothers with kids who had bad/bullying fathers so she knows all the tricks and the right words to use, it’s the way she words her text messages, there is no discussion, it’s always polite she says thank you after telling me what I have to do and it sometimes seems like legal speak / wording to give me no option but to do as I am told..

I’m fed up with this 'I own you' because I have your kids attitude, I feel I’m at her beck and call all the time and I can’t plan anything for myself because is she tells me I have to do something on that day I have plans I have to drop my plans to have the kids...

I want to avoid any focus on me, it makes me nervous and I get upset easily, it will never go to court because I’m to weak, I want to stand up to her and sometimes I have said no but recently things have altered in her wording, she did warn me she was seeking legal advice and she probably has.. I feel I’m absolutely shafted until the kids are a lot older, and as though my life has to be on hold for her because she owns me...

I’m fed up, I feel depressed, I hate my life, my partner sticks by me but she has had enough of the whole situation and because I’m so weak she thinks I’m choosing my ex of her. if I had the [censored] I would just end my life but I try and think of the kids, I have always wanted to be a dad and be a good dad, better than mine when I was young but I have failed at everything, I feel like a pointless sperm donor with a wallet..

I’m sorry, about all that, once I start typing it just comes out
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Its ok AP you need to get these feelings out....It worries me that you speak of ending it all, your children need you and they love you. It sounds to me that you are clinically depressed. Have you thought of talking your GP about how low you are feeling? Your doctor could refer you for counselling and I feel this would help you, they can teach you some coping strategies and help with your confidence issues.

As I said before you need to start standing up for yourself but that must be pretty daunting with the way you are feeling at the moment. Think about going to see your doctor and get some help.

Most importantly keep talking about it, we are here for you to help and advise but only you can take the first steps to doing something about it. 🙂

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Thank you Nannyjane,

I must admit I have been on meds before and went through a course of CBT to help me after the ex had the affair and through the divorce and it did help but it took a long time to build up any sort of self esteem and I do really miss that person who I could talk to and they could put my feelings and thoughts in to layman’s terms so I could figure it out. I didn’t have this sort of problem then so it was never really discussed, but I would love to go back but it’s just not that simple. The problem is every one I speak to is connected in some way to the issue and you never really get a clear answer/help. I have thought over the last few months about going back to the doctors but I’m trying to avoid it because I thought I was through all of that and that phase of my life and now with my new partner I don’t want her to feel she has failed because I have had to go back on meds to try and help me, but I know and I am coming to the realisation that I am going to have to I think.

What I seem to need at the moment is reassurance that the things I do are right, I have spoken to my partner and next week we are going to go to the solicitor just for one of their free consultations just to get the reassurance that I am within my rights to stand up for myself and say no.. my problem is I worry about what the kids think of me if I say no to them coming over as when the ex wants me to have them because I know for sure she will be saying to them that I don’t want them or my 'other' life is more important that they are, I feel like I’m being emotionally blackmailed all the time and its draining.

I really wish there were more local support groups for NRP's I have often thought about setting one up because I know that I’m not the only one who is having problems and sometimes it’s easier to speak face to face with people who are in a similar situation and offer support with maybe support buddies. As an NRP I feel extremely lonely and as though everything is against me, this wasn’t my choice it just happened but I seem to be the one who pays emotionally and financially all the time... I left the house (it was rented but all the furniture, etc) because I didn’t want to upset the kids, I wanted it to remain stable for them and familiar when I wasn’t there anymore, so I lost everything, I lost being involved in the kids’ lives and seeing them grow up a part from every other weekend, I lost all my belongings, I ended up with all the debt because it was in my name because the ex never worked until about a year before we split, I have had to start my life all over again and I don’t think that PWC really understand how difficult it is too loose everything and re-build your whole life and adjust, all they lost was another person who is replaceable to them. The system is extremely unfair, I absolutely hate it. The other thing is with maintenance, I feel the way that is calculated is totally wrong, why is it over nights only? if I never had my kids sleep over but I had them every day you would be based on zero sleeps even though you are paying for all the bills, clothes, food, etc how can they be so old fashioned and to top it off if I become more successful I have to pay more to the PWC, I don’t understand how children 'cost' more if I earn more? And it doesn’t take in to account the PWC works and is on nearly as much money as I am... its extremely hard for the NRP but if you try and talk to the PWC all you get is we have no idea how hard it is, I would love to see how they would like it if they lost their children and was never involved, seriously... I know it must be difficult for a PWC but that doesn’t take away the fact of how difficult it is for the NRP... the PWC always use to say to me that I had the life of luxury, I had my cake and I could eat it because I was single and could do what I wanted when I wanted but I also got to see the kids as well, seriously if I wanted the single life I would not of had children, I would not have wanted to father my own family and got married, some people are so blind...

Rant over sorry

Thanks again for all your support
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Tonights saga

i picked the little lad up from after school club, as soon as i pick him up he is telling how they went shopping to buy clothes for their holiday to eygpt and how he had been bought Timberland boots that cost £60...... so lets re-cap, my ex wants me who is struggling with money to buy clothes for the kids for summer camp when she has enough money to buy an almost 9 year old £60 boots!!!

He also said he spoke to his mum about me and my partner going to the school play and in his words 'she went ballistic'

to rewind a bit, a bout 6 weeks ago my son told me he was going to be in a play at school as one of the leads which was great and he asked me to make the cosyume because im good with making stuff.. so i spent the next 3 weeks making a costume out of all sorts, paper mache, painted it and it was spot on, he was well happy.. Well the school only issue 2 tickets to the performance and of course the 2 would default to his mum and sister (im use to that) but he wanted me and my partner to go as well so i spoke to the school about a couple of spare tickets so they took down details and said it 'should' be OK.. Thats how it was left until tonigh when my son told me about him telling his mum that we were going and she went balistic..

As it happens after i had dropped the kids back home tonight i recieved a text from the ex saying that i had only got half a story and she wasnt upset i was going (i must have misunderstood the term 'she went ballistic') and that i could have the evening tickets and she would try and pull some strings to go to the afternoon performance BUT i have to pick my son up and take him to teh school for the afternoon performance (which i am going struggle to do, were tight on time getting there for 6pm due to both our work commitments.. This has made me even more angry because its been turned around to her being inoccent and the saviour and me being the [censored] and i have to bow down and thank her for being so generous WHEN i had actually made all the arrangements myself with the school, without having to involve her..

I am getting extremely fed up of the contant contact and problems that she brings, as you can see ITS EVERY DAY.. i have a very importnant task at work at the moment on a tight dead line and i just cannot focus, im upset and and very angry (thats an understatement) THIS HAS TO END OR ... well i dont know but i and my partner and our relationship cannot take it any more its just not fair...

Sorry again for going on, i really need to vent

(sorry if any poor spelling)
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Vent away AP 🙂

I understand how you feel....you could explain to her that work commitments wont allow for the afternoon run, be pleasant but firm.

Not being able to focus I can relate to as well. My Son is in Court this morning for the first leg of the process, I'm going with him for support and it should be straightforward but he is still in bits. He had a huge row with his landlord yesterday and the bin men the day before! I would say hes upset and angry too....He's doing an English Degree at Uni and it is really effecting his work, as you say he cant concentrate on anything.

Well after a sleepless night I'm all ready for this morning....Paperwork check, pad and pen check, tissues check, lippy check! Just gonna put the kettle on for a quick cuppa before the off!

Try and be firm today AP, easy it isnt, worth it it most definately is! 🙂

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Thank you NJ

i havent as yet done anything, i recieved a text this morning saying she had sorted me out 2 more tickets from the school... erm well done you BUT i spoke to teh school 2 weeks ago about it and sorted it then until she went BALISTIC at my son about us going, i didnt want any atmosphere for him at teh show so i told him we wouldnt go BUT now she is the big hero, god how i hate her and this 'power trip' she always has to be on... grrrrrrrrr.. im just leaving it and going to go with my partner and keep out the way but something i should really be looking forward to i am absolutely dreading and so is my partner but she wants to go to see him perform..

Please wish your son the best of luck for today, i cant imagine having to go through all that, i would be destroyed, i know in context my problems are no where near as savere as that and i feel asshamed at times when i start 'moaning' because as i have always been told there are people out there that are worse off that me (even though im not them and they are not me)

I know by now your day at court is all over and done with, i really hope that it has gone well for you both and your son is lucky to have such an intelligent and strong mother.

Thanks again

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Hi AP 🙂

Thanks for your kind words....things didnt go as well as we had hoped today 😡 and I feel totally drained! 🙁 Having said that its not over till the fat lady sings and today was the first step of many....But this thread isnt about me, its about helping you! 😉

When is your sons show? Have you agreed to the pick up in the afternoon, if not, why not text her and tell her that you have tried to see if you could, but work comittments wont allow as you will be pushed for time anyway to get to the evening show on time. If she refuses to give you the tickets contact the school and ask if you could have a couple of replacements, tell them why if they ask... Next time something like this arises ask the school to deal with you directly.

Most importantly, put aside your dread about the show... find a favourite photo of your children, put it on the fridge door or somewhere you will see it all the time and each time you pass it tell them that you love them and you will overcome your fears. Just as you want them to be happy, they want that for you too...Try not to worry, I think your children know you well enough now to know that you would have them if you could. If you have to say no, next time you see them explain to them why, I bet you it wont be a big deal in their minds...the only one that wants to make a big deal of it is your ex!

You know sometimes our fears are what hold us back from something, when we finally pluck up the courage to go for it its never as bad as we thought it was going to be! Its like....[censored] that was so much easier than I thought, I so wish I'd have done it sooner! Fear holds us back and makes a problem seem much bigger than it is.

One step at a time AP, one polite refusal and the next one will be that little bit easier. 🙂

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Oh dear NJ that doesnt sound good at all 🙁 i really hope things improve for you both, the whole system is geared around these so called PWC its just not fair..

Well i did deal direct with the school to obtain an extra 2 tickets on top of the usual nieve amount they issue which is 2 assuming that every child has 'the perfect family' but my son cam out of school and told me that they had only gave them 2 which by default will go to the PWC which is fine, he said he will ask his teacher BUT then when he said his mum had gon BALISTIC at him because i had said my partner and i would be going i said i wouldnt go because i didnt want my son to feel that way and be put in a position like that so i was just going to back off.. Then i got the first text about misunderstanding (which is Bull()*&) and i was going to ring the school this morning to sort it out but she had beat me to it and had arranged an extra pair of tickets for me and my partner and the text came across so derogatry it was unreal, as though she had gone out her way to help me and do what was right for oour son WHEN i was already handling it direct with teh school and i did not need her influence AT ALL.. so since that text my partner and i have just decided to go BUT i have no want messaged her back with a million thanks for being my hero (which is probably how my son will see it) its so annoying when i was dealing with it ANY WAY... talk about a controlling BIT*&.. with her its al about who wins and that will always be her because of the way she is.. PERFECT and im nothing more than a glorified sper donor.. I hate the way it all is and i cannot wait until at least 8 years have past, then i may be left a lone and i can get on with whats left of this crappy life...

Trust me, that word NO is going to get used a [censored] of a lot, ive just about had enough of her attitude ive kind of gone past caring, i have sorted out that extra day, my mum is going to look after the kids because i cannot provide care for them but after that everything will just be a NO regardless of whether i can do it or not, i will see my kids when i want to see them, not when she wants a babysitter... i hate the way i feel and the way i have to be, its just not me but my buttons are just being pressed but i know thats what she wants, she wants to push them so hard i snap and she can then have something against me forever.. She has already said she can cope better than me and shes the one who has the kids, that bit&* knows nothing about me or my life but its immature statements like that, that just push my buttons, to think i could have loved such a nasty and evil person, it makes me sick...

How do you cope and stay so positive, i just feel destroyed on a constant basis, i spend every day waiting for the next ball of [censored] to roll down hit and land in my lap, she invades my home every day by the fact that my partner and i have to talk about her and i hate it, i do not want her in my home in body or mind but she will not go away... I tell you its a good job dreams never come true or i would be wearing stripes....

Thanks again and sorry for moaning and im so sorry today didnt go well 🙁

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...I think once you start standing up to her it will get easier AP 🙂

My son is the PWC..he got custody in 09/11. This current court case is because he had to stop contact in November because the mother was growing cannabis and got caught, was under investigation for physical violence against her other child, a girl of 9, and her new boyfriend was just out of prison for domestic violence and arson! I'm going to post about it just to offload...we all need to do that from time to time!

As for staying positive, I'm stubborn and so angry that this woman has such an effect on my families life, but I wont give her the satisfaction of knowing that! When my son is crying in my arms (he'll be 30 this year!) I have to be strong. Having said that I have always been a glass half full type of person 🙂

As for your ex, thank her for her input but let her know you had already organized the tickets with the school so she needn't have put herself out.As for your son thinking shes a hero, make a joke about it..."Silly mummy, I'd already sorted the tickets, I wouldnt miss your show for anything!" ...you know, just down play it!

Just say no! 😉