[Solved] Court again? Never ends!

...because Coram have given you the above advice, I would first call the Family Rights Group, they help parents who's children are under the care of Childrens Services.

I'm of the opinion you could make an application when there is Childrens Services involvement but these guys will be able to tell you definitively.

Here's their helpline number

0808 801 0366

www.frg.org.uk/

...perhaps a way round it would be to apply for an enforcement order and transference of residence.

I'm of the opinion you could make an application when there is Childrens Services involvement but these guys will be able to tell you definitively.

Agree with Mojo,

You are looking at the courts for an order that keeps your child/ren safe even if there are CS involved...ultimately it is likely to end up in the courts again anyway.

Make the call and Good Luck.

Thanks again!

I phoned FRG this morning who said I should just keep him after contact and when mother puts in for a judge to order him back, I would then defend it with "no he needs to be with me". VERY reluctant to do this as don't think the judge would appreciate it at all not to mention how disruptive it would be to our child!

Then she said I need to go to mediation before I can do anything..!

The one thing I did agree with her on was to arrange the meeting with the manager ASAP and air everything with her, pick up the court forms in the meantime to give time to fill them in appropriately (last time I was scribbling away on a public bench!) and if childrens services don't change their attitude drastically then go to court and the social worker can explain to a judge why they aren't doing enough. On way to pick up the court forms now.

She also said that the FGC is about coming up with a safe plan for the child and it nearly always involves the child moving to live with family members who can provide the safe environment. Exactly what the assessment social worker said it was but the current social worker said it's all about "supporting the mother"!

Bottom line from phone call (aside from the conflicting legal advice) was childrens services are in the wrong, complain to the manager thoroughly and if they don't put it right then let them explain themselves to the judge.

Thanks again!

I phoned FRG this morning who said I should just keep him after contact and when mother puts in for a judge to order him back, I would then defend it with "no he needs to be with me". VERY reluctant to do this as don't think the judge would appreciate it at all not to mention how disruptive it would be to our child!

I agree with you...although if that is done you would need to submit an urgent application for a CAO for residency immediately....as this is a situation that has been ongoing for a while, the judge may question why you didn't act immediately on finding out.

Then she said I need to go to mediation before I can do anything..!

Thats wrong, if there is risk of harm to the child then mediation isn't mandatory.

The one thing I did agree with her on was to arrange the meeting with the manager ASAP and air everything with her, pick up the court forms in the meantime to give time to fill them in appropriately (last time I was scribbling away on a public bench!) and if childrens services don't change their attitude drastically then go to court and the social worker can explain to a judge why they aren't doing enough. On way to pick up the court forms now.

She also said that the FGC is about coming up with a safe plan for the child and it nearly always involves the child moving to live with family members who can provide the safe environment. Exactly what the assessment social worker said it was but the current social worker said it's all about "supporting the mother"!

Bottom line from phone call (aside from the conflicting legal advice) was childrens services are in the wrong, complain to the manager thoroughly and if they don't put it right then let them explain themselves to the judge.

... At least you know you can apply to court regardless of Social services involvement....which is what you needed to find out.

Good luck with it and keep us posted 🙂

FRG also said that he should 100% be on a child protection plan NOT a child in need plan due to the DV his mother has continued to put him through his whole life and the risks of her going back to it. She said too much social workers are considering "at risk of harm" to be purely physical and not considering the emotional impact which is what this case is all about.

Child has become distressed and expressed that he wishes mother would stop slapping him. This is all about everything she has put him through and everything he says the social worker just disregards as "oh well he's adjusting to between houses so he will say things". He's terrified and convinced that mother will invite ex back (if he is to be believed, she already has but sw doesn't believe him). There's also proof that she has manipulated him before he's had interviews with social workers - paid him "to be good" during visits and the "I'm ill, make me happy and tell the sw nice things to make me better" card. Both of which were totally disregarded by sw.

He should be in a safe environment where he feels secure, in a home where he is comfortable and has never witnessed any form of DV. I have a calm longterm family setting at my home, where he has step and half siblings, I have never had so much as a sniff from any authorities (aside from when she's accused me of everything under the sun which went nowhere) so why oh why is this so difficult to prove he should be with me? It really does feel like everyone is against fathers. Like I said, if she was a man being this violent putting him through all of this, he wouldn't still be under her care.

...completely agree.

Some Social Workers seem to put the needs and best interests of the mother above that of the child!

I phoned the manager who said that she'd like the current social worker to be there too and she'd check their schedules to see if any times matched up.. phoned back and said she'd checked and spoken to people and it will be her, the current sw AND the current sws line manager.

A little (very) phased that it will now be three of them (probably closing ranks) but at least it'll hopefully make more of an impact!

You can request to bring someone with you to help take notes. They don't like the session to be recorded but it is a good idea to try and get a written record of what is being talked about.

A close friend or family member perhaps.

Really thrown off!! My amazing other half phoned FRG earlier on my behalf just to clarify a couple of points (particulary CiN vs CP). As soon as the advisor realised she was a step mother, she gave lectures on she should never say anything to CS because the mother will accuse her of trying to steal her son and CS will believe her - something which has never been suggested in four years not even by the mother. She asked how she knew that the mother was violent towards me because "people will say anything when it comes to social services you just believe it because you love him" and unless she was witness to it then she doesn't know and can't take my word for it. She was told that noone should ever question what CS do because "they go to university for years to learn how to do this, they don't need parents who don't know how the system works to tell them how to do their jobs". I couldn't believe what I was hearing as I came home during the call - she ended up hanging up in tears!

I am furious and now extremely unsure of what I'm doing at this meeting! The one "good" thing I'm trying to take from the phone call was the advisors disbelief that it's a CiN not a CP plan as it should be with such a large history of DV.

I had such a clear plan of genuine points to raise and how I was going to go about it and I have "never question what CS do" going round and round in my head.

Apologies for the rant.

CS are attempting to preserve a volatile status quo which is clearly not in the best interest of the child/ren.
What do you think the best outcome of the meeting will produce?

Are you intending to submit without notice child application for residency?
Both Mojo & I have suggested you have a strong case which would be convincing before a family law judge.
They have experience and sufficient understanding to know when things are not right and need changing for the sake of the children.

Well the meeting was an absolute disgrace. The current social worker didn't attend so there was just the two managers who have never even met the mother and pronounced her name wrong throughout the whole meeting!

They said that it isn't them that decides whether it's a child protection issue or not so it's a CiN plan. So much two faced rubbish.. I got railroaded constantly. I would make a point, explain and ask the question and they would pick the smallest, silliest thing out and make a big deal about it to make me look petty. I mentioned that she'd been horrendously abusive over a civil, easy conversation about a coat as an example of how volatile she is and asked how I should approach things when the SW tells me to talk to her and it's even on the CiN plan that she's only allowed to have appropriate conversations with me. To which they picked up on the coat and spent 15 minutes ignoring my attempts to move on talking about a [censored] coat and how it's so silly to be an issue! Then told me that I never need to contact her apart from to arrange pick ups and drop offs and that's that because I have no reason to ever speak to her about anything else?

I have never done anything other than been civil towards her, friendly in person around our son and never bad mouthed her to him. However because SHE is abusive (not around him) and SHE badmouths me and my family to him, they are tarring us both with the same brush saying that our son is stuck in the middle of two parents who can't get along. They even said "we would sort out a contact book to go back and forth between the parents for you but both of you would just write spiteful things to each other". Even at the end of the meeting when I expressed I would definitely be attending the next CiN meeting coming up they said they would arrange seperate meetings so we don't have to be together if I couldn't tolerate being around her. Why! Meeting overran by 35mins but I still didn't get answers to hardly anything because they just focussed on rubbish.

I've looked at the court forms and cannot see an applicable option to tick for not attending mediation. So I'm guessing write to the judge and start the ball rolling on mediation if the judge doesn't get anywhere?

Social services say they cannot get involved on where a child lives unless a child is in danger and if I think there is a case to be answered then go to court.

Still no idea why they are doing a family group conference if they are happy with the way things are going!

As far as they are concerned, he is fine at school, fine towards the social worker and the mother is allowed unlimited contact with her ex as long as he doesn't know where they live. They even said "of course there is a risk of them getting back together again but until that happens and we get police reports proving it then we can't act".

This has been going on for nearly six years now.