[Solved] Child arrangement issues enforcement and CSA

I would certainly say that it's worth a go - I can't see how she can defend that. Ultimately, you don't have a great deal to lose apart from the cost of the application.

Thanks, I'm just wary that if I make the application she'll use it to create chaos in the courts again!!

My question is, if I apply to the court for an enforcement order, can I use the letter that crazy ex sent to the CSA that shows her breaches (or is there some kind of legal privalage?)
(Crazy ex is near the end of her pupilage, to become a barrister, and is a nightmare in a courtroom!!)
Cheers in advance

Hi

There are a few points here:
1. Legal privilege in the sense of protecting ones "freedom" to seek (legal) advice and (genuine) resolution to a problem - without harming ones position in court in doing so - is not often invoked in family law cases. Quite simply because that particular legal process is not "about" the parents - it is about the welfare of a child. While parents can take legal advice - it is not their position or their interests they are seeking to uphold - but the childs.
2. A letter from your ex to the CSA does not attract "legal privilege" - I am quite sure - as they (CSA) are not acting within a legal context.
3. I am assuming that when said letter was sent - no Court proceedings were taking place...? This is important - as one cannot (usually) claim privilege ex-post because litigation (which they did not foresee) has now occurred.

More relevant is this line of argument extending from "confidentiality":
How have you come by this letter (sent from your ex to CSA)? If it was disclosed to you - was it sent from your ex to CSA "in confidence"? Did the CSA disclose this letter to you "in confidence"? I suspect you have obtained this letter freely as there was no indication or presumption of confidentiality - and in that case (since the information is known) again, privilege does not apply.

It is arguable how much such a letter is worth, in any case. Family Courts are far more interested in "actual" "denials of contact" rather than the possible posturing that takes place with "in the know" contact-deniers.

On the other hand - if your ex had instructed her solicitor (meaning you were in litigation, negotiating to resolve a problem, or a very good chance of litigation happening) who wrote to you with the visitation scheme - then such information may well be protected by legal privilege. But then point 1, above, applies.

I would say - approach it as a confidentiality issue - which itself is void if you have obtained this letter "freely" i.e. it was sent to you with no explicit declaration to which you have agreed that it should not/will not be used in Court.

A good overview is here:
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/support-services/advice/practice-notes/aml/legal-professional-privilege/#h6lpp

PS. consider a barrister for your performances at court if she is making a fuss.

Hope helps

Hi, thanks for the comprehensive reply,
The letter detailing the days spent with ex, was sent by ex to CSA in an attempt to show that the 'banding' of shared care should be changed, (before litigation) obviously I disputed these 'forecasted' dates as I knew it would be a breach of contact, the letter has now been provided to me as part of the the CSA tribunal 'bundle'.
There has been many letters sent between our legal representatives and it is has been pointed out and shown very concisely that she knows she is breaching the ordered arrangements because she even attempts to argue both sides of her own case?!

We've really been through the mill with this, from my obtaining a court to pick up my son from her house, many years ago, to her making statements to the police implying that the court order prevented me attending her home, my subsequent arrest, her immediately attending women's aid, and then launching a 48hr without notice application to the family court and asking for seperate entrances, screen between us, and with all of the malicious allegations and requests for PO orders that you would expect from such a motivated legally trained 'crazy' !all whilst I was on bail!

(The comical side of this, was that, I was charged with harrasment without violence, this was for sending a text to ex saying "can you please ask (child) To ring me" I attended a criminal court and pleaded not guilty and was placed on bail pending a trial, two days later, in a different town i was in a family court (whilst on bail) and ......clerk of the court got I'll and our hearing was moved to a later time with a different Judge, I got the same Judge who I had seen two days earlier

The judge ordered that the contact arrangements continue as they had been before,'the status quo' .

Her applications took 6 hearings to sort out including a visit to a circuit judge.

I really don't fancy going back to court but she calling the police to my sons school,

Is there anyway I can ask for the correct interpretation of the order from the courts without making an C79 application (ie) can I write to the judge or the clerk?

Hi no problem

It sounds awful - and probably quite upsetting for any children involved, I'm sure.

Obviously I do not have the *full* facts and details to hand, but I think I understand what you are getting at.

The letter from your ex to CSA is part of a CSA (CMS) tribunal bundle, where your ex is appealing (?) an already agreed CMS payment schedule. I you want to use it, you should until told otherwise.

The point I have a difficulty with, is that the CMS should accept a court order as "proof" of arrangments for a child. Therefore, quite why your ex's appeals have got to tribunal is a bit unclear.

With regards to a "correct interpretation" - an interpretation is just that! An interpretation - it is a personal thing. You can return to court for enforcement of an order or to vary the order - but both paths should not be taken lightly, given as you described your ex.

That said, if your child is being denied contact with you - how many days in total, is this a pattern? I think this is the main criteria to determine if enforcement is needed.

With regards to an ex being legally trained - beware of being lulled into "abusive communications" which will then be used against you....(you may have already experienced this "trick")

Hi, thanks for your help with this.
It really is a ridiculous and complex situation, if I was to write the whole thing down as fiction it would seem unbelievable.
i have now emailed and then phoned the court to ask for the correct 'interperatation' of the order, in the hope that they will clarify in writing, I can then use this to advise her again to stop her breaches. (Although, a court ordered contact arrangement of a 5,2,2,5 pattern that "recommences in the relevant pattern" after the holidays, is straight forward enough for me!!)
due to ex's irrational behaviour, to date, including the upcoming CSA tribunal, there be 15 court hearings regarding issues concerning my son. I suppose in legal terms she should be called a vexatious litigant, ( a legally trained narcissist)
Today I emailed, and then spoke to the court on the phone and they have said that they have forwarded my message to the clerk and will either write to me to clarify the interpretation of the order or tell me if an enforcement application needs to be made,

Regarding the CSA, I also (like you) understand that they are obliged to accept the court ordered arrangements, but if ex has consistently breached order and then confirmed her breaches in writing I am not sure where I stand? (ie) their calculations are based on 'nights with a parent'

(Hence my seeking advice on whether her letter to CSA can be used to support an application to stop her breaches)
Many thanks again for your help.