[Solved] Changing a contact order advice

Hi PDad,

Just a few questions as well:

If your ex has moved 200miles away... why does the commute take so long?
What specifically does your current order state?

In the general sense you will need to raise a C100 and attach a copy of your current Order to this when sending it in. A supporting statement under Section 7. You will need to put something along the following lines:

Currently the Order is followed as [what it stays in the order]

Your proposal is likely to be a lengthy one for the variation to take place. I would recommend putting again in Section 7 please see Annex 1 and then attach a separate sheet headed Annex 1.

Annex
1) On this you will need to clarify: Your current situation i.e. My wife is now pregnant and the situation regarding your travel times, (potentially) your awareness of your ex-wife's ability to travel to her family on regular basis, The vehicle situation i.e. only having enough room for 4 people etc.

2) You then need a short paragraph to state that the stipulations of the previous Order are now no longer suitable and that the Court should take all reasonable steps to ensure that your children be allowed continued regular and reasonable access.

3) You should then look at a paragraph to propose that you request the Courts to ensure your ex wife travels and meets at a location that can be comfortably be reached by just yourself and i make a suggestion that you will need to include something like following sentence:

"I ask that the Courts support to uphold the current Order, but to vary this Order by way of my request that it is perfectly reasonable to ask that [Ex Wife] meet at [Location] with [Children] to ensure that Contact continues to happen"

Court Hearing for Variation
At Court you could then explain that the alternative is a) you having to purchase a bigger car which you may not have the finances for b) will mean a babysitter being sought from 5am-12midnight c) a 12month old child travelling for highly excessive time and also at Court point out that there is nothing unreasonable about your recommendation to varying the Order under the unreasonable expectation that a), b) and c) will have to occur once your new child is born.

The Courts will also have a duty to consider the circumstance for your Child with your present wife, and in any event the Court should be expected to encourage (softly softly) your ex-wife to agree to this.

You would also do well to say that your children will soon have a brother/sister who are now family and you are keen to continue to have regular defined contact supported through Court, your expectations are reasonable, and the variation will allow a bond to be built between the new brother/sister.

Hi Yoji,

The court order states that I pick the kids up from a location 10 minutes from her house, which is 220 miles away from mine. The court order specifies the exact times, location and days each month and has a penal notice. I asked for it to be specific as I feel that if there is little room for it to be interpreted differently by me and my ex then we won't be able to argue so much. She did not want specifics but the court agreed with me that it could limit scope for arguments in the future.

On the days when I only have them for a day we drive 5am-9.30 (30min stop) pick them up then drive home 6-10.30 (30min stop). The last few times we have driven back due to road works our route has been diverted and we have got home between 11 and midnight. For one day with them its a minimum 8 hour round trip (Me or my wife often have to work the day before or after).
When I have them for half term holidays I pick them up the Monday evening and drop them back Wednesday evening. Usually I work until 2pm on the Monday (so I can have Tuesday & Wednesday off) and then drive to pick them up; the last time I did this we got to them at 7.30pm due to the traffic and then on the way home we faced more diversion problems and we got home at 12.30am with 2 very tired children. So that was 10.5hours of driving and the whole scenario was repeated on the Wednesday with me and my wife getting home at midnight and she had to go to work at 6am the next day 🙁 So that was another 10 hours within 3 days.
One day last year I had to go there for a court hearing and the weather was bad (snowing). We left home at 5am and got home at 3am the following day; we got there at 12 and left at 3 so totally that was 19 hours of driving in one day! (I know that's an extreme situation, but it shows the potential for the amount of driving it can be).
It's not possible for me to pick them up and stay up there as my wife sometimes has to work when we have them and I can't afford the travel, staying in a hotel, eating out and taking them out every time.
I plan to ask to vary the order so I see the kids once a month; for example at the moment I see them on the first Saturday of every month and then again if there is a school holiday, but I want to change that so the months that I see them during a holiday I don't go up there for just one day as well and to compensate for this time I would lose I'm going to ask that at half terms I pick them up Saturday lunchtime and drop them back Wednesday lunchtime. The months where there is no holiday, instead of having them for one day I'd like them for the weekend maybe lunchtime Saturday to lunchtime Sunday??
The holidays where I have them longer anyway (easter, summer and xmas) I just want to change the times and location (lunchtime and midway) I don't expect my ex to have to get up really early to get them to me.
Is it also a fair point that at the moment all the driving means my quality time with the kids is affected?
Also, if my ex's solicitor says to me that she does not agree to meeting halfway, what do I do? Last time in court we were given 3 months after the section 7 was completed for me to have interim contact and during that time we had to try and agree on contact between us so the court could just finalise it. I sent her solicitor my request, followed by weeks of requesting a response. The hearing was on a Monday and on the Friday before they contacted me and said she didn't agree. With hindsight I believe it was tactics as I was so desperate to reach an agreement I agreed even though it wasn't really fair. This time I don't want to make the same mistake, do I just tell her solicitor it's not reasonable or practical for me to do all the driving and if she won't agree the court will have to decide?? What will happen then??

Thank you for your advice 🙂 my wife has been getting stressed thinking we have no option and she can't cope with the driving and I've been worrying that I may not be able to see my kids so it's comforting to know that the court will take the new baby and our situation into account 🙂

Hi PDad,

I'm going to be very blunt with you on this one.

I would seriously recommend that, as nice as contact is to have on a "near" regular basis. I would strongly suggest that you look into the possibility of securing contact times along the following:

- Half Term Saturday-Wednesday (or Wednesday-Sunday)
- Easter and Christmas one week each to be alternated
- Summer Holidays (to be agreed)

I honestly do commend you for making such a gargantuan effort to stay in touch with your children. I'm just thinking as a practical point of view now, and i would say that a Court will possibly explore the above as a more sensible opportunity, for you, your children and your wife/baby.

Courts very often (and Barristers too, i know from speaking to many of them) think that quality time is the main factor. Thats only a half truth. I actually argue that quantity can be just as effective, the more you are around your child (doing quality things), the better the bond will be secured.

Is it also a fair point that at the moment all the driving means my quality time with the kids is affected?

In short yes. This is why it is important that the journey made be looked at from a point of view of fairness. It surely cannot be expected to be fair that you are responsible for making all journeys for the 220miles. A half way meeting is, in my opinion perfectly reasonable to expect every 6wks or so.

Also, if my ex's solicitor says to me that she does not agree to meeting halfway, what do I do?

You will need to write a letter to explain that, you believe given the current circumstance (your expectant wife) that it cannot be viewed as fair nor reasonable that your ex-wife cannot at least share some of the responsibility. Ultimately, your role will be to convince the Court that ensuring a meeting half way is a) beneficial to continuing to support your childs right under the existing Order b) should consider the fact and the welfare of your future child taking into account his age and the unfairness this will place

I'd actually put it like this to a Court: "What is your reason for not agreeing to meet half way"... her answer is going to be limited, travel costs, job etc. At this point a panel will assess her reason, check its validity and equally you can challenge its validity. If she outright refuses, the Court should openly challenge her on this, as clearly she is not acting in a reasonable way to allow contact. If they do not challenge her, you need to press the panel into challenging it.

Also, tell your wife not to stress. If push comes to shove more in the long term i can probably contact you directly (i.e. before you are about to go to Court). As it stands there is too much to sort out, the little things can be taken care of first. Then i can provide more help on some of the bigger issues.

Any further questions, please feel free to ask away 🙂

Thanks for the advice 🙂
Thinking practically, I can see your point about not doing weekends as well. I think I'm going to ask for: Saturday-Wednesday half terms, 1 week at easter, 1 week at xmas and 2 weeks during summer. The only weekend I am going to ask for is Father's Day weekend (Saturday midmorning/lunchtime to Sunday lunchtime/midafternoon) - I know it's not brilliant but it's only one weekend a year and although it might not be important to everyone I really feel I want to be with all my children on Fathers Day.
I think my wife definately feels less stressed thinking we do have a chance, it's just unfortunate that we have to go back through the stress of court whilst she's pregnant 🙁
At the moment she's only a few weeks; she's due for a scan at the end of this month and if everything is ok at the beginning of next month we'll file the papers.
I'm hoping it won't take too long to sort out as the last thing we need is court dates around the time the baby's due or even afterwards! Hoping 6 months gives us enough time *fingers crossed*.
Thanks again for the advice it's really appreciated, I feel much more confident than last time. Will probably speak to you again once we've got the ball rolling 🙂