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Hi,
This question has probably been asked hundreds, if not thousands of times. However, I am sure that you will all agree that these things always feel very specific to you.
So, here goes.
Myself and my ex (children's Mum) have two children together, daughter 12, son 9, we split in 2016, and I had the children for best part of a year whilst she battled her demons, alcohol and mental health issues, and we went through the courts, after she had proven to the courts that she was now on top of her issues we obtained a child arrangement order, shared access in 2017.
We have had issues over the years, which have led to the children staying with me whilst Social Services looked into issues etc, but nothing overly major, and for the past couple of years everything has settled down and we've been getting along (for the children of course).
That's the history in a nutshell. So now I'm back to the present, well a few months ago.
During the summer, my Daughter 12, had began to become quiet and withdrawn, not like her, she's usually bouncy, bubbly, happy etc. After encouraging her to talk about her feelings and thoughts, she eventually opened up, that she was unhappy with certain aspects of being with her Mum. Things like looking after her little (half) sister 2, her Mum shutting herself away in the kitchen drinking and smoking, not being able to shower or find clean clothes because of clutter etc, there's more, but just a few things to give you a taste. As the summer went by, she was adding new concerns and issues with each period of time she spent with her Mum. She didn't feel like she could talk to her Mum about things, and didn't want me to talk to her Mum because she was worried that she would be told off by Mum on her return to Mums next time. It started to become a pattern, my Daughter would return home and talk to me about issues etc, then she would be happy and back herself for a couple of days, then a day or so before returning to her Mum's she would become quiet and withdrawn again. On her return to school in September, I encouraged her to speak to the school, as they had helped with an issue with Mum the previous school year. She agreed that was a good idea, and we arranged the meeting. After speaking with the school, they sought advice from Social Services, Social Services wouldn't get involved as it wasn't nothing of major concern. The school called Mum in and spoke to Mum about the issues. At which point, my Daughter worrying about being told off by Mum for speaking out, had said that she would like to stay with me instead of returning to Mum.
After Mum had spoken to the school she sent a message, explaining a few things, it came across like a nice message, but there was some guilt tripping included. Anyway, my Daughter decided that she was going to her Mum's as per the CAO. Obviously not an issue.
On picking my Daughter up that weekend, she came back quiet, withdrawn, and a little upset with how things had gone during that time with Mum. She explained that she was made to feel guilty and her concerns and issues had been dismissed, she felt that nothing was going to change. And asked to stay with me for a couple of weeks.
Obviously Mum wasn't happy with this, but came across quite understanding. Myself and my Daughter had agreed that she would go to Mums a week Friday, and spend the night. Mum asked for a list of issues, which my Daughter was reluctant to provide as she felt it was a waste of time.
I picked my Daughter up on Saturday evening, Mum wasn't happy, as she asked if she wanted to come back next week, and our Daughter replied with 'don't know'. On the way home, she was far from happy and we spoke when we got home. My daughter had indicated that the time spent with Mum went okay, and she didn't get told off, but she was made to feel guilty, and again felt that the issues she had brought to attention weren't being dealt with.
I have tried to encourage her to give it time, that certain issues can't and won't be resolved overnight, I have tried to encourage her to spend some time with her Mum. I have also spoken with Mum, and given her some advice, for example allow our Daughter to speak and express herself, then respond, instead of telling our Daughter how she feels before listening to what she has to say.
My Daughter didn't want to go back to Mums, and agreed to go back to Mums Friday (tomorrow) I said she can stay, but I wanted her to do the list that her Mum had asked for. Which she reluctantly agreed to do. Upon sending Mum the list, Mum replied in a defensive manner and it felt as if she was putting the blame on our Daughter, and again, also pursued with the guilt tripping.
As previously stated, this pattern of being quite and withdrawn started Wednesday this week, and my Daughter has been indecisive on spending time with her Mum this Friday. Stating that she wants to stay here, and she is worried her Mum will become angry with her because of the list, and not spending time with her again. My Daughter has decided she wants to stay with me, and she wants to keep things as they are on a permanent basis. Visiting Mum every other Friday for one night.
I have been encouraging this relationship for years, she was warned by a social worker a few years back that if she didn't credit our Daughters concerns etc, and continued to dismiss her feelings and call her a liar, that it would damage their relationship.
Obviously, Mum is angry, and upset.
My son 9, has been spending time with Mum as per the court order. So it's not like I am stopping contact, this is my Daughters choice.
I guess what I need is some really good advice?
But also, I would like to know where I stand legally, as I am currently in breach of the court order, is it something that I can get changed, if so, do I have good grounds?
My Daughter is now 12, year 8 at school, she is very mature for her age, and very responsible. Is she able to express her wishes, and would the courts listen? Is there anyone else, she/we can speak to that maybe able to help?
Sorry for rambling, but thanks in advance for your advice and responses.
Hi,
Your daughter is at an age where her wishes and feelings carry a lot of weight in terms of court and child arrangements. As you are encouraging her to see mum and she is refusing, I don't think courts will consider you to be breaching the order. If your daughter is certain she wants to live with you permanently, then you could go along with that as an informal arrangement with her mother. Or if your worried about breaching order, you could return to court to formalize the new living arrangements. This would involve you booking a miam mediation appointment for yourself. Mediator can decide to invite your ex. If agreement reached, then arrangements can be sent to court to be approved as a consent order. If you can't agree, then can submit a c100 form, to vary your order for child to live with you, and go through court proceedings. Feel free to get in touch if you need advice.
@bill337 thank you for your time in reading and replying.
I'm going to arrange a meeting for my Daughter, Mum and myself, and see if we can agree on something informal
I agree with Bill. Children vote with their feet around this age and the court will respect this. You can apply for a variation to the C100 yourself if thats what you decide to do. There is an excellent guide on the advicenow.org website which will steer you through the process
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