[Solved] 800 miles away!!

can this be moved please? sorry didn't see the post above

Hi and welcome to the forum

I'm sorry to read this, it must be a very worrying time for you and the children.

I feel the first step here for you is to invite your ex to attend mediation (mandatory before court application) to discuss this.

http://www.nfm.org.uk/

If you are unable to agree at mediation you can consider making an application to the court for a Prohibited Steps Order to prevent your ex moving. It's not a guaranteed outcome and it's always at the discretion of the judge presiding. Having said that, there have been many successful cases of this sort. You could speak to a solicitor for some basic advice, they are likely to know your local courts and judges well and many offer free 30 minute consultations.

If using a solicitor beyond some free advice isn't possible financially you can self represent, many of our dads on here do and it's not as daunting as it seems.

Wishing you all the best and please feel free to ask questions and we will try to help.

Hi,

Sorry about your situation.

Firstly, I can sense your anxiety on the matter - honestly who wouldn't!? It's a huge change. Keep calm whilst speaking to her, probably meet at a neutral place if that helps. I would strongly writing down factually the reasons for your objections and work-arounds if any.

If that fails, mediation might be the next stage.

Lastly, should all efforts fail you can take out a prohibited steps order and have the matter brought before the judge. Since you have an amicable relationship, I would strongly suggest that this is used as a last resort.

If I were in your situation, I would be asking to have the kids live with me and they go visit her in scotland until after school age at least. This is my personal view.

Good luck

Hello and thank you for the advice.

I contacted NFM yesterday and am waiting to hear back (I wish it was instant I'm worried sick even though it's a long way off I'd like to sort it soon as its hard for them and me if only she knew how we were feeling).

I haven't mentioned mediation to her but will tomorrow. I honesty think she won't want to bother.

thanks 'halfoyster' I can tell that she is going regardless. I just hope that she does leave them here in there home town. as I believe the move will put pressure on every aspect of there lives.

I have been taking notes when things come into my head (when upset I tend to forget everything).
but I will make a list of key reasons it important for them to stay here (with me).

I had a very productive day yesterday 🙂
I have a meeting with the school tomorrow morning to discuss how they think it will affect them and to acknowledge what they have achieved since being there.
Waiting 🙁 to hear from a solicitor for legal advice and cost.

Thanks again

Hi there

As Yoda says, you and the children must be feeling the stress of this....I think it very unfair of her to put it on their small shoulders....yes, seek their opinion because it's a big move, but ultimatums are a no in my book, they are too young for such a big responsibility? This has to be decided between the two people who love them the most.

Its good that you are able to meet to discuss this.... Would it be possible for you to talk to her family, the maternal grandparents and aunts/uncles before the meeting tomorrow? It would be a good idea to find out if you have any other support. The fact that she has given you plenty of notice of her intentions is also a good thing, as it gives you time to prepare.

Scotland is out of the jurisdiction of England and Wales and as such is classed as another country. If she were to remove the children without your permission this would be child abduction. If you do not give your permission she would have to apply to the court for leave to remove from the jurisdiction....you can make her aware of this during your meeting.

As Yoda has said, mediation would be the first step before any application to court can be made, whether she applies to the court for the right to remove, or you decide to take pre emptive action and apply for a Prohibited Steps Order (PSO), mediation is your first port of call.

Best of luck with your meeting tomorrow, perhaps if she realises it's not a simple as upping sticks and moving she may reconsider.

I do hope you can get this sorted out without needing to apply to court...it's not quite as simple as "taking out" a PSO...oh how I wish it were! As Yoda says, there are successes but no guarantees.

It will put great strain on your amicable relationship with your ex and of course the children will be affected by this. They are both still quite young, if it gets to court their wishes and feelings will be sought but other factors will also be considered.

The 10 year old is at a pivotal point educationally, your ex needs to take that on board....and the fact that they would be leaving behind the love and support of their wider family is also an important factor.

Best of luck with your meeting tomorrow, please do come back and let us know how you got on.

I've got to correct myself here....although England and Wales is separate from Scotland as far as family law is concerned., it is not counted as abroad as it is within the UK....sorry for that, I wasn't absolutely sure so thought I would check.

.....ok having some senior moments this morning!

I've copied and pasted this from the FNF website and provided a link to the site at the bottom...it seems my initial sense of this was correct but check this with your solicitor....I do hate being wrong!

The United Kingdom, when it comes to law, has something akin to a federal system. A number of different jurisdictions operate under different laws passed by different legislatures, though some Acts passed at Westminster apply to all of them.

The various jurisdictions within the British Isles are: England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Jersey, the Bailliwick of Guernsey and the Isle of Man. Each has a distinct legal system, and this can cause confusion when a child is taken from one to another.

In legal disputes concerning children, the relationship between the constituent parts of the British Isles is governed by the Family Law Act 1986. The Act defines the United Kingdom as England and Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, with the other islands (and "any colony") coming under the heading of 'dependent territories'.

Part I of the Act deals with 'child custody' and restricts its effect to situations where an order under section 8 of the Children Act 1989 (or its equivalent) in respect of custody, contact or education is in force or where an order has been made under the inherent jurisdiction of the High Court. Any such order made in any of the jurisdictions must be recognised by the other jurisdictions and have the same effect within them (except where the order concerns enforcement, in which case it must first be registered in the jurisdiction concerned).

Under the Act (insofar as it relates to children) a major consideration is that of the child's 'habitual residence'. Under section 41 of the Act the child will be treated as being habitually resident in the original jurisdiction for a period of one year unless there has been agreement from "all persons having, under the law of that part of the United Kingdom or that territory, the right to determine where he is to reside". So, unless there is a Residence Order in force, an application can be made for the child's return in the first twelve months.

There is an additional problem however if the parents were not married and the father does not have Parental Responsibility.
Section 2 (2) determines that: "a court in England and Wales shall not have the jurisdiction to make a section order in a non matrimonial case unless the condition in section 3 of this act is satisfied".

Section 3) states that on the date of application: "the child concerned -
a) is habitually resident in England and Wales: or
b) is present in England and Wales and is not habitually resident in any part of the UK or a specified dependent territory"

It is also possible to apply in any jurisdiction for an order restricting the removal of the child from that particular jurisdiction (e.g. a Prohibited Steps Order in England and Wales) subject to consent of the court. The test of habitual residence does not apply under the Act where the child has reached the age of sixteen.

www.fnf.org.uk/law-information-2/children/abduction

thank you very much for this info

I will check it over first with a solicitor as you suggest.
And yes I will keep this updated.

Thank you

I've got to correct myself here....although England and Wales is separate from Scotland as far as family law is concerned., it is not counted as abroad as it is within the UK....sorry for that, I wasn't absolutely sure so thought I would check.

Are you absolutely sure about that NJ - I thought that removing a child to Scotland was counted as another country?

...I was having a senior moment actd! In my following post 12 minutes later I withdrew my correction and went with my first opinion! Lol

...I was having a senior moment actd! In my following post 12 minutes later I withdrew my correction and went with my first opinion! Lol

thank god for that 😀 I was worried that I'd given out loads of incorrect advice on that in the past :side: