TOPIC: Final Hearing

Final Hearing 2 weeks 15 hours ago #92162

I would say that without this site, I don't believe I would have been able to support my son to have the courage to go to court and get this far (final hearing) without legal rep. My son was stopped contact by his ex with his 4 year old son (my grandson) in October 2017.

Long story short.
My son splits with his ex,
Contact is ongoing and regular
3 years later....
Ex meets new partner
Ex falls pregnant with new partner
Contact stops - she wants fresh start with new partner
Zero contact with my son and all his family
I find this brilliant website for advice and support
File C100 (my son)
His EX claims DV, controlling behavior, etc etc etc... the list goes on and on
Ex gets legal aid - son self reps
First hearing - Claims DV and wants Police Disclosure
2nd Hearing - EX just had new baby doesn't attend. Judge wants Scotts Schedule by 3rd hearing
3rd Hearing - Police disclosure back (nothing showing regarding DV) Scotts Schedule allegations we replied to all allegations (6) point by point with evidence and facts only to the points raised. EX is dropped by her legal team as no proof of DV on the police disclosure.
Judge changes the hearing from 2 day to 1 day.

Sorry - now to my questions:-
Final hearing next week. EX will be calling 2 witness which she claims has seen the DV. One is her step father and one is her best friend. My son is self repping - so will he need to question the witnesses (any advice). As they cannot have seen something that didn't happen? so how do you question that?

My son has asked for every other weekend Friday to Monday am. Pick up from school friday and drop back Monday am. Tuesday or Thursday overnight - pick up from school and drop back to school in the morning.

If.. all goes well and he gets the contact as per above - how long after the final hearing will the contact start. The reason I ask, is we would really like to start contact whilst his son is still in school and before the 6 week holiday starts, so that a routine can be established without contact with his EX.

Again thank you all so much, we would not be anywhere without this site and would definitely not have the courage to go to court in the first place.

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Final Hearing 2 weeks 14 hours ago #92166

As police diclosure has come back with nothing regarding DV and her legal team have dropped her as she cannot claim legal aid and that her two witnesses being close to her cannot be taken on face value as they are not impartial i personally would not be worrying.

i would point out all the above to the judge and provide evidence to suppor tthe no findings of DV by the police.
i would also point out that for 3 years everythign was going fine until she had the new fella and baby and cut all contact there and then.

Fingers crossed the judge will see it as plain as it looks to me.
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Dad-i-d

i'm not legally trained....i'm just a Dad going through hell to see his child grow up and become a decent man and human being.....my goal is simple...to be the father to my child like my father is to me...my hero.

Started this battle 2010.....cannot see it ending until the courts act on parental alienation

Final Hearing 2 weeks 14 hours ago #92167

thanks Dad-i-d for reply. after the final hearing, will it takes days, weeks or months for the contact to start/resume if the judge agrees to the contact.

As We really would like to start the contact ASAP as picking up from school if starts immediately.

However if doesnt start for a few weeks, it will be the start of the summer holidays and i am pretty sure the EX will not be playing nicely..... if the previous months are anything to go by.

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Final Hearing 2 weeks 6 hours ago #92172

You can't really predict how quickly it will happen, it depends on how the judge sees the case your son makes.

Factors they will consider include, how long as it been since he's seen the child, how often he was seeing the child before, and more importantly, how involved was he in the child's upbringing. If you're saying he hasn't seen the child since September last year, I think the court is unlikely to order everything he asks for straight away, I think you are more likely to get a progression building up to what you ask for over a few months time.

If your son is finding that level of hostility, make sure to ask for a very specific order that covers holidays, birthdays, Xmas, Father's/Mother's day, and also, if on the weekend he has the child, Monday is a bank holiday, he returns to school on Tuesday, not Monday.
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Final Hearing 1 week 6 days ago #92182

Thanks Superprouddad. My son had contact with him every other weekend and one night in the week for 3 years. This was stopped in Oct 2017. Looking back he has not had much to do with his son’s every day care - only the contact days. He has always paid child care and he would baby sit at short notice if his ex wanted a night out. The contact has always been at my house, even when my son was not living here, as we have the space for my grandson to have his own room and his toys etc. His grandad would take him swimming every Tuesday hence the overnight previously during the week and his dad would then spend the night at ours with him. My son now lives full time with us and has taken a job with zero contract to allow more time in the future with his son.

Noted regarding the bank holidays - didn’t think of that. We have also asked for birthday, Christmas, Father’s Day and summer holiday contact.

The hearing is on the 12th June - so not long now and let’s hope the judge wants to give a young dad a chance to grow his relationship with his son.

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Final Hearing 1 week 6 days ago #92186

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Hi there

Youve done so well, I agree with both of the responses, just carry on what you're doing and concentrate on what is best for your grandson.

I would prepare a schedule of contact, making the point that previous contact included overnights and was consistent for over 3 yrs until the end of last year. I would go for a couple of weekends of full days and then start of overnights, perhaps just one night for the first couple of weeks and then straight into full weekends/midweek stays. That should bring it into effect by the end of summer term.

Its sometimes a good idea to ask for more than you would be happy with, as it gives you some wriggleroom in which to make compromises without giving up too much.

It would also be a good idea to prepare some cross examination questions, but as Dad-i-d says she has a personal relationship with the witnesses, which weakens it as evidence. Make sure he knows the content of their statements fully, so that he will be straight onit if their oral evidence/answers differs. Theres a sticky about cross examination at the top of the legal eagle.

Alternatively he can ask the judge to ask questions on his behalf if he feels nervous about it.
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DadTalk Moderator

Not legally trained... just plenty of experience and common sense!

Final Hearing 1 week 1 day ago #92320

Thanks Guys.
I have just gone over all the witness statements (3) and have written bullet points for my son with a few questions for him to ask (or ask the judge to ask).
Breaking them down this way shows the -- shall we say-- "Un Truth's" in the statements. ie: my son kept his ex away from family and friends, isolating her - when in reality her best friend lived 2 doors away and her family lived across the road.

The questions i am finding hard are the questions to ask the EX - as it is all untruthful and without evidence.
ie: threw her down the stairs, controlled her, etc.. There are no police reports - only her best friend who says she witnessed various acts of violence.

Questions for the friend - i have mainly written - when did this happen, where and who was there? were the police called, was this reported. cant think of anything else to ask.

Questions to the EX - again pretty much as per above. Any advice of questions to ask?

I, personally, have loads of question i would put to her, but are not for the judge's ears!!

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Update : final hearing 1 week 11 hours ago #92350

Final hearing today. The judge ordered Zero Contact.

He Believed all the EX allegations to be true and the statement of the EX best friend to be true.

Even though no police records to violence, no medical records of Violence and the EX step dad saying he had never seen any violence.

So thats it.. over

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Last Edit: by NannyKit. Reason: wanted to move to legal but did know how

Final Hearing 6 days 19 hours ago #92354

Absolutely gutted. Judge ordered ZERO Contact. He believed my sons EX was controlled and threatened even with police disclose coming back with no DV. Dropped by her legal as no DV.

She cried and sobbed. And got what she wanted. She had her best friend as a witnesss who claimed to see constant acts of DV. BUT HER STEP DAD who lives across the road from the EX. Didn’t see any.

Where do we go from here. PLEASE HELP. I am absolutely stunned that the judge ordered NO CONTACT.

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Final Hearing 6 days 18 hours ago #92355

Im sorry to hear about this outcome.

Has there been findings of fact on any of the allegations at any of the hearings?

Has the mother or your son requested one, and if denied, was there good reason given by the Judge for not pursuing this? It is not the parties obligation to raise the matter with the judge, he/she must identify and address, without being invited, the seriousness of DV allegations and the need or not for fact finding, depending on whether the result of such findings would be likely to influence the decision.

One assumes that electing to not pursue one implies the allegations were perhaps not serious enough, or not substantiated enough to proceed to fact finding, or that they would likely not substantially affect the outcome of the case even if found, etc...

If no fact finding has taken place I can not see on what basis there could be an order for no direct contact at all?

Indeed if (serious)allegations are to influence a judgement as drastically as to refuse any direct contact, then surely very good reasons would be required to be given by the judge in electing not to pursue fact finding on these. In fact I fail to see how such an order could be made without fact finding on such allegations, if indeed these are the reason for the order for no contact?

Even if some allegations were found to be true in fact finding or during one of the hearings, they would need to be of a certain level and nature for contact to be denied completely.

Do you have the judgement?


You may find this helpful:

www.coramchambers.co.uk/media/Publicatio..._Handout_Website.pdf


Chapter

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Last Edit: by CHAPTER.

Final Hearing 6 days 16 hours ago #92356

There was a fact findings and police disclosure report was asked for by her legal rep. The police disclosure came back with no DV. Her legal team then dropped her case due to no DV, so could not continue with legal aid.

The EX had pages of DV with images of a black eye and a scratch to her face. No medical back up or police reports. Her Witness claims to have seen numerous attacks.

The EX claimed he abducted his son - which was untrue. He picked him up from EX house and took him to nursery by her asking. He arrived early, she sent the child out and my son put him in his car seat and drove off. She called the nursery to say he has left without a car seat and his coat and without permission to leave. The judge said this was very serious and shows that he wanted to scare and control the EX by showing he can take the child.

We have not seen any CASCAF reports.

The other witness was her step dad who said he had not seen any violence only what the EX has told him. (he lives across the road from EX).

The EX had a statement from my sons previous partner (the partner after he split with the ex) which was unsigned and on speaking to the other partner she has not submitted. However at the final hearing their appears a statement which is signed. I have spoken to my sons previous partner - who says she has never given a statement or signed one. So the EX must have made the statement up and just signed in the other partners name. The other partner is not willing to go to court or wants nothing to do with this case as she has moved on and is happy with her new partner. So cannot get her to tell the judge that this is all false. The false statement claims he beat the partner and hurt her daughter - which is not true.

Judge says he has seen this is the past and DV victims do not go to the police and my sons is a controlling, manipulative man and due to the amount of DV claims from the EX he has go with that these are true. Hence Zero Contact Order.

We are just shocked... as their is no outside proof that this is the case and my son is not been convicted or charged with any DV.

Just dont know what to do next. We dont have the money for legal advice and feel that Zero Contact is very wrong, when he was seeing his son regularly over the past 4 years.

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Final Hearing 6 days 14 hours ago #92357

The Fact Finding hearing was in the morning and the decision was made in the afternoon on the same day. The case was due to be a 2 day hearing but was dropped to 1 day hearing due to their only being 6 allegations and 2 witnesses.

After FFH in the morning - the judge found the allegations to be true.

FYI

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