TOPIC: It doesn't happen as you're led to believe!

It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 3 weeks 2 days ago #90247

Things have been complicated for me and I appreciate the help that I have been given on this forum, particularly by Mojo. Went to court today to contest ex parte orders (had a date previously that the court muffed up so I "missed" it and the orders were upheld in my absence, so again thanks to Mojo for the advice which meant I got another date) and it was literally nothing like I thought and had researched. I ended up taking an undertaking, even though I have so much proof that the ex is lying about everything. I said at first I wouldn't take one then the Judge and ex's solicitor were talking to each other about having 3 or 4 more hearings and it taking about a year which would basically mean the orders would stand in the meantime, and as they're for another 11 months I'd have them against me the whole time I was contesting them, so utterly futile! Now at least I have an undertaking, not orders. Have a return date in 3 months for the first hearing for the child contact as no cafcass report yet. Have yet to see how an undertaking will affect my job due to it being something where we have to make full disclosure on every single little thing - if I get the sack the ex will be kicking herself as she'll get 5 quid or whatever it is out of my dole instead of the huge percentage of my salary I pay her now. Miss my 3 children and hope they dont forget me. Btw the Judge didn't "tell me off" regarding the undertaking, which I had been told happens and was dreading it, but simply said "thank you" to me. I have a big folder which will only get bigger full of statements, allegations, evidence - maybe I'll give one to each of the kids for their 18th so they can see what I was up against!
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It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 3 weeks 1 day ago #90288

Sounds like the judge just thanked you for freeing up the courts time. Im glad my undertaking was turned down now, at first i thought it at least took away the power of arrest that comes with NMO's.. With evidence you say you had I would have still contested the NMO like I am more so if you think it will get you to lose your job.

As for the last bit, all i'll say is forget trying to bring this all up in time to come with your children, It didnt work for my ex wife and in fact turned the children even further away from her. Kids will work it all out for themselves and for me I dont have to argue with the ex wife as the kids shut her up without me even having to say a word and that goes for the 3 step children too. All in their 20's now . never bad mouth their mother because i just dont have too. matter of fact they have ago at me for sticking up for her at times when they come over to have a moan about her ect.
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It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 3 weeks 18 hours ago #90298

I hope the undertaking was without accepting any of the allegations? That should clear it with your employer.

Without knowing what the conditions of the undertaking are, it might affect your contact, with such things as pick ups and drop offs. Hopefully you will have the same judge that sat for the last hearing... I did think this was a hearing for the contact too?

If the welfare report that has been ordered is a section 7 that would explain the length of time it will take to prepare and the reason you're not back in court for another three months. Perhaps now that the mix ups have been resolved you can concentrate on the case for contact. Have the court asked for any statements from either of you?

Once you have the report, it will give you a better idea of what you need to do and we will do as much as we can to advise and support you. Patience will be your ally right now, it will be a difficult few months for you and you will need to stay strong and focused.

All the best
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It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 3 weeks 12 hours ago #90323

I totally understand the pressure you were under to give an undertaking, last year I was in the same position, but for the benefit of people who may be in the same position reading this in the future, and apologizing in advance if this comes across as too straightforward, I honestly believe giving an undertaking for something you didn't do is a terrible idea.

The mother can now use that at any time to cast doubt that you may have done something. She can get legal aid and keep you away from the kids for longer. Again, if someone did something, by all means, give an undertaking and stop doing it. But if it's false allegations, which is the case more often than not, STAND YOUR GROUND AND DO NOT GIVE AN UNDERTAKING.

Instead, suggest to agree by RECITAL (not undertaking) that you won't do whatever it is the mother doesn't want you to do, and the mother can withdraw her application by consent. Do not give an undertaking unless you have a valid reason to.
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It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 3 weeks 3 hours ago #90327

I agree with superprouddad - it might seem like a short term solution to your problems and you may think it will lead to you seeing your kids more but by agreeing that you did something when you didn't opens up a whole new can of worms. You are automatically the bad guy. If allegations against you are false, stand your ground, do everything you possibly can to prove that you're the victim and not the perpetrator.

It's a shame judges don't make people take undertakings to stop making false allegations - or at least dole out penalties for perjury. If false allegations were punishable the courts would be under a lot less strain and the justice system would be a lot fairer.
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It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 2 weeks 6 days ago #90328

All I can say is shame on judges for actively encouraging undertakings.

What this judge should have done is, not to be so lazy. Glance at your evidence and turned around to the mother and say you will be penalised if a future fact finding hearing finds you allegations false.

Lazy judges, who don't deserve to be in the position they are.
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It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 2 weeks 6 days ago #90330

I agree Ami, The courts are so filled up with these sort of hearings and most cases wouldnt go as far if the accuser of allegations could end up in trouble should it be found they cant prove the allegations. I understand the judge wants a quick and easy solution and an undertaking does give this.

Ive got it with my ex atm, The police have told her I recon that after 3 arrests and NFA being taken by the CPS to go down the NMO route. Iv made a complaint regarding the police too hence why i recon they are helping her with this NMO and dragging up my past of 10 and 20 years ago.

What's bugged me is the fact she has admitted already in court that to obtain the ex patre NMO in the first place was based on lies in her statement or fabricated events. Even the allegation of threatening to kidnap the boy she admitted wasn't quite right and was only going on what the police have said. This I know she has been completely miss informed by the police but again the allegation to get the ex parte NMO states " He has made me believe that he will kidnap my son" the judge even asked her that I havent directly made her believe this, to her reply " NO" I did say to the judge that im concerned that she will use this order to get me arrested if and when she pleases if they still stand until the hearing in May. Totally fell of deaf ears that did. I really do feel that the judge thought well there inst nothing here to grant an NMO yet but hey ill give you a few mths to gather more that maybe we can make an order on.

Now if the judge said to her, well as im giving you the chance to prove these allegations and should you not do so you will charged with making false allegations I know for a fact the whole thing would be dropped. Its all one sided as it stands and being a man sucks.
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It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 2 weeks 4 days ago #90374

Keep the undertaking paperwork to hand in case the police come knocking on your door ex tried to intimidate me from pursuing court application by getting the police on me for "harassing" her and claiming she had a non-mol against me

She did it several times and each time i had to get the paperwork out regarding the non-mol discharged and prove the undertaking taken and prove that i could contact her and prove that the messages were non-harassing or abusive in nature.

oh and they spoke to her about her mis-directions / deceptions but didn't do anythign about her wasting police time or anything!
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i'm not legally trained....i'm just a Dad going through hell to see his child grow up and become a decent man and human goal is be the father to my child like my father is to hero.

Started this battle 2010.....cannot see it ending ever!
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It doesn't happen as you're led to believe! 2 weeks 4 days ago #90389

I'm going to play devil's advocate here - I work with a lot of Dads who are almost a year down the line in contested NM's and would give their teeth for an undertaking. Don't underestimate the amount of stress these proceedings can put you under & how often an alleging parent will try to escalate the complaints to 'prove' their case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying accept undertakings left, right and centre, but sometimes they (or preferably, a recital) are the best option for all parties.
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I have several years experience supporting parents in family proceedings as a McKenzie Friend. I am, however, not a lawyer or barrister and my responses are based on my own opinions or experiences of the family court.
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