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Backstory: my 2 year daughter lives in Scotland with her mother who is in university, I live in England studying at university (final year) and we are separated. I give her mother £40 weekly even though I no longer work part time (gave up work in November to focus on my final year). Legally I don't have to give her anything being a student but I would never do that and have kept up the £40 weekly. (Which I discovered recently is the amount someone on a £18,000ish salary would pay!)
My daughters mother (let's call her C) wants her to go to this private nursery and eventually the school. I don't like the idea but I'm ok with her going to the nursery as it doesn't cost much more than normal nursery (something like £2.50 a day, or so I’ve been told).
I visited 2 weeks ago and C had written down the costs etc and then the monthly amount at £843.
She had £843 - the funding/grants she gets from being a single parent, then she had me and her mother giving her £40 a month each. I worked out a day or two ago that after the funding taken off of it would leave £60 so would mean £30 off me and her mother not £40.
Anyway so she called me earlier telling me that she’s going to pay it every term instead of monthly as theres a 2.something% discount, and she said she needs £133 from me every 3 months which works out as £44.33 a month. I’m sure she said her mother was going to give her £120 every 3 months, but I can’t remember.
I said I can’t say for definite as although I’m about to graduate I can’t say for certain when/if I’m going to get a proper job, then she started to ask if my parents could ‘sub’ me for it until I do. I just said I’ll have to think about it.
I was getting confused with the numbers she was throwing at me so I said to her look lets go through it monthly like I’ve got it written in front of me as she wrote it. So I explained to her that after her funding it would leave £60 a month to be paid not £80, thats when she said her mother wasn’t going to give her £40 like she had written down. And then she was like look don’t worry about none of that I’m paying it termly for the discount.
So I said ok how are you now asking me for more money than was written monthly when there’ll be a discount that wasn’t on the monthly? She said she hadn’t worked it out with the discount yet. But even regardless of the discount, it's still more.
Then I asked her to send me it all written down so I could look over it. This started an argument. She was saying things like...
“No you don’t need to see how its worked out”
“Why do you need to worry about the other money, you don’t.”
“All you need to know is that I need £133 from you every 3 months and it’s not exactly much is it”
and things like that. I argued back, I told her that I am well within my right to ask how our daughters childcare is being paid for (am I mistaken?). She piped up saying she’s not lying to me or asking me for more than she needs. I said I’m not accusing you of that but I still want to see it written down so I can look over it better.
I pointed out that she didn’t have a problem showing it me the last time she calculated it or me taking a photo of it for reference purposes, so there shouldn’t be a problem now, especially as she’s asking me for more money. She said there shouldn’t be a problem and I shouldn’t be asking as I already have this copy, regardless of them now being incorrect.
She also tried to threaten me (at least that's how it came across) by saying that if she signs it but then if for some reason our daughter can't go there for example if we can't pay then it doesn't matter because she's signed so we would still have to pay and my name would be on there too?! Seems she doesn't realise she can't sign something in my name...
I didn’t give in and eventually as we ended the call she said she would send them to me when she got off the phone.
Half an hour later and I got a text off her where she said "I don't think I should send you how our daughters childcare is being paid for" using the excuse that her funding is going to pay for most of it and she isn't asking me for much.
Am I right in thinking that if I went to a lawyer they would tell me the opposite? In my mind this is either a power play (most likely) or she’s asking me for more than she needs.
And the thing that really gets me is that she doesn’t understand that the money I give her is all one payment, for everything. There’s no separate money for childcare. If we did it through the government it would be one amount set from my salary.
I don't want to be a [censored] and stop my daughter from going to this nursery, as she really liked it there. But without any guaranteed income right now and without knowing what starting salary I'll get when I do get a job I can't fathom how C can expect me to give her £51 every week...
Sorry… longer than I intended. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Hi
The simple advice is that, as you already know, you aren't legally obliged to pay anything to her at the moment, so anything you do pay is simply you providing for your daughter - which is the morally correct thing to do IMO if you can afford to do so. However, you have to remember that your ex has other costs of looking after your daughter, beyond that of the nursery, so I don't think it's worth arguing of the details of the nursery costs - it's simply you paying what you can afford to provide for your daughter and letting you ex use it as she feels necessary. If you can't afford more than you are paying, then stick to your guns. As for the school, if you have PR (are you named on the birth certificate), then you have a right to be involved in the decisions regarding her education, but ultimately, as she is the parent with care, the final decision is hers if you can't agree, and her obligation to you is to keep you informed of where your daughter goes to school.
Once you finish your course and get a job, the calculation that the CMS use is based on your gross pay (12% in factr, for one child) irrespective of what costs are incurred by the mother.
Thanks,
I know that I'm not obliged to give her anything but morally I would never not give her anything, which is why I have continued to give her £40 each week. I know that she has things other than the nursery to pay for, I think you may have misunderstood what I meant. She is asking me for an extra £45 a month to pay for this private nursery on top of the £40 I already give her weekly.
As you say if this was done through the CMS it would simply be a percentage of my salary, and that would be one amount that would need to cover all costs... whereas I don't think she realises/understands that as she is asking me for this money as extra to what I am already giving her rather than taking it from that. She has also asked me for extra money in the past for things such as ballet/gymnastics.
And yes I have PR, and I think asking to see it all written down and how the costs of this private nursery are going to be covered is fair enough, especially as she is asking me for extra money to pay for it, but this is what she is refusing. She is refusing to discuss the payment simply telling me all I need to know is that I need to pay £133 every term.
Ultimately, you have the option to say you will pay her nothing, as you are currently entitled to do, and then tell her that you want a breakdown of costs so you can start to pay her towards the nursery costs. I can see that it won't improve relations, but ultimately, you have to decide whether that's the way to deal with this, or to tell her that you aren't currently obliged to pay her anything legally, so the money you are paying her will have to cover all costs until you do get a job.
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