[Solved] Elderly Dad - nightmare.....

Hi there

I'm at a loss about what to advise here...

Have you sat your dad down and talked about the problems that you're faced with? Have you noticed a change in his personality, sometimes when an elderly parent becomes so demanding there can be a medical reason, early onset of dementia for example.

He may be lonely and unable to vocalise how he's feeling, asking you to attend with him all the time could be a sign of this.

You could try contacting age uk and seeing if they have any services available, such as day centres, or they may be able to offer assistance to attend hospital appointments.

All the best

Hello paulfoel,

I think your father may be struggling with possibly a number of things. It could be loss of independence, restricted mobility, loneliness, lack of confidence, isolation, fear, memory / sight / hearing loss, worry, social interaction etc. With reduced stimulus, interests and possibly other concerns they may have, older people can become very introspective, they do not realize the concern they cause to others or the effect they have because their world becomes so small that in effect they sometimes function as if they are the only ones that exist in it.

In my opinion I would sit and discuss with him how things can be better arranged for him and for the rest of the family reassuring him at the same time you all care and love him. By doing this you may discover how he feels and by also asking him to help you, he may feel more wanted and useful therefore meeting you halfway over certain issues.

I do not know father's difficulties but there are a number of things you could discuss with him to see how, if and when he needs support, practical things such as:-

Aids from the occupational therapist - perching stool - bath / shower seat, hand rails etc to aid independence,
Is there a day centre he could attend once or twice a week for social interaction?
Is there a local organization which pays regular visits to the elderly's home.
Could he use the hospital or local voluntary car service for hospital visits or even accept the taxi eventually?
Have a Lifeline which is a pendant with button worn round the neck linked to a centre specifically for older people in case of an emergency.
Either employ someone privately for a few hours a week to do the house cleaning and whilst there do some washing --- after purchasing a washing machine or ask for a referral for home care. The former would be my preference.
Attendance Allowance can be applied for (I'm not sure whether it is called that now) which is not means tested but is an amount allocated if the older person meets the criteria regarding the need for help with care.

There are a number of things you can try to do to improve the situation but the need is to talk with father and explain your difficulties and listen to his. Try to come to some compromise.

I always think, older people know how we younger people feel as they were young themselves once ... but ... we do not know how older people feel because we have not reached the age they are at yet.

I believe that both of you need a father and son talk. The way I understand it according to your story with your dad. Your dad knows that he can count on you no matter what. But I think what he needs right now in his age is a son that will spend some quality time with him. Even if only an hour it will make difference. Maybe through that you can fully understand him.

I believe that both of you need a father and son talk. The way I understand it according to your story with your dad. Your dad knows that he can count on you no matter what. But I think what he needs right now in his age is a son that will spend some quality time with him. Even if only an hour it will make difference. Maybe through that you can fully understand him.

Thanks for all the messages. I've tried all sorts and yes I spend plenty of time with him talking to him.

Basically, he wants to stay in his own home and he wants to not be so unwell. He says hes not lonely and got lots of friends (he does have an active social life to be honest). Main problem with him is he won't listen to anyone else and won't let others help him.

We had a chat the other day again. He admitted he was struggling to get up and down the stairs. He lives in a weird sort of flat. Living room up one flight, then bedrooms/bathroom up another. Hes actually peeing in a hospital bottle to avoid going upstairs.

So we talked about stair lift again. This is how it went:-

Me - "So Dad in terms of living arrangement what do you want to do in the future?"
Dad - "I love living here no way am I ever moving or going into a home".
Me - "OK if we can get a few things sorted you should be OK. A stairlift is something you're going to need, if not now in the future".
Dad - "No I don't want one - I can manage"
Me - "Thing is if you fall again and do more damage to your legs then what are you going to do? It takes time to get a stair life sorted so now is a good time. If you can't manage at home then there might be no option and all that money you saved will be gone".
Dad - "That'd finish me off if they took it all off me!"
Me - "Right so lets get a stairlift sorted".
Dad - "No. I can manage. Social will want some money off me for that - Im not wasting my money after saving all my life!"

Had the same thing with shower/bath the other year. He couldnt get in and out and refused to pay the conribution SS wanted off him - £500 - to fit a walk in shower.. So he stopped washing completely,.

In the end I talked him into it and he says its the best thing he ever had done. This happens all the time with him!
I know the stair lift thing is because he just does not want to spend money.

As for the other things, he has a lifeline thing, carers a few times a week, meals on wheels etc.

Hello paulfoel,

I think your father is trying to stay as independent as he can (understandable), improvising when there is a difficulty, quote, "peeing in a hospital bottle," and obviously he is reluctant to spend his hard earned money.

If you have talked and reasoned with him regarding the stair lift and he will not change his mind, I think there are only two things you can do. First, pay for the stair lift yourself if that is feasible having received approval from father. Secondly, ask his G.P. to talk to him or get a referral from S.S. for an occupational therapist to visit and do an assessment as to his needs and talk to him of the benefit of having a stair lift.

Sadly, all to often with the elderly it is not until a crisis occurs that cause things to be implemented. Many times the crisis could possibly have been avoided with forethought, however, you can only do what you can having exhausted all avenues.

Hello paulfoel,

I think your father is trying to stay as independent as he can (understandable), improvising when there is a difficulty, quote, "peeing in a hospital bottle," and obviously he is reluctant to spend his hard earned money.

If you have talked and reasoned with him regarding the stair lift and he will not change his mind, I think there are only two things you can do. First, pay for the stair lift yourself if that is feasible having received approval from father. Secondly, ask his G.P. to talk to him or get a referral from S.S. for an occupational therapist to visit and do an assessment as to his needs and talk to him of the benefit of having a stair lift.

Sadly, all to often with the elderly it is not until a crisis occurs that cause things to be implemented. Many times the crisis could possibly have been avoided with forethought, however, you can only do what you can having exhausted all avenues.

Yep. But he could make things so much easier for himself if he just listened a little bit. The peeing in the bottle thing is not ideal.

I had thought of paying for stairlift but he'd probably go nuts if I did that. I've tried talking to both GP and SS but as, strictly speaking, hes mentally capable then they won't do anything. SS have been a bit disappointing because they've not made much effort to see what he really needs.

Yes there is no forethought there at all. Trouble is if anything happened it would be difficult for me to have him at my place - my wife is disabled and I've got young kids. But can guarantee he'd assume he could live with me.

Dear paulfoel,

I sincerely empathize with you. I understand fully the position you are in. It is an extremely difficult situation to handle and very much a worry for you and the family when an elderly person will "not work with you."

You sound as though you have done and are doing as much as you can for your father. You can do no more other than to try and get the occupational therapist to do a more in depth assessment and tell him / her the difficulty you are having persuading your father to see the benefits of having a stair lift. Some times if you get a professional on board they can have more influence than a family member.

Regarding the stair lift even though you would be prepared to finance it, you cannot do it against his will.

Most people do not consider the position they may be in when they become old and therefore do not make provision for the difficulties they may encounter. Time and time again this causes a great deal of worry and concern for the family. It is a common occurrence.

Your father is deemed to be mentally capable and consequently he is making decisions as to how he chooses to live which is his right to do.

I know you want better for him and to lesson your concern but I don't believe you can do any more than you have tried to do.

If it was me, I would respect his wishes and let him live as he chooses, keep a good relationship with him and at the right time ask him if he has thought, if he should fall and become more dependent, what he would do. This may give you an opening to discuss the stair lift etc again. If at anytime he says he will live with you, you must be totally honest with him and say that, that is not going to be possible.

Father is happy in his world, he is clinging on to the independence he has, I believe you therefore have to accept this and not allow yourself to be consumed with worry and frustration which this kind of scenario can induce. Yes, you care, love and worry for your father but you can only intervene when he will allow you to or a crisis occurs.

Dear paulfoel,

I sincerely empathize with you. I understand fully the position you are in. It is an extremely difficult situation to handle and very much a worry for you and the family when an elderly person will "not work with you."

You sound as though you have done and are doing as much as you can for your father. You can do no more other than to try and get the occupational therapist to do a more in depth assessment and tell him / her the difficulty you are having persuading your father to see the benefits of having a stair lift. Some times if you get a professional on board they can have more influence than a family member.

Regarding the stair lift even though you would be prepared to finance it, you cannot do it against his will.

Most people do not consider the position they may be in when they become old and therefore do not make provision for the difficulties they may encounter. Time and time again this causes a great deal of worry and concern for the family. It is a common occurrence.

Your father is deemed to be mentally capable and consequently he is making decisions as to how he chooses to live which is his right to do.

I know you want better for him and to lesson your concern but I don't believe you can do any more than you have tried to do.

If it was me, I would respect his wishes and let him live as he chooses, keep a good relationship with him and at the right time ask him if he has thought, if he should fall and become more dependent, what he would do. This may give you an opening to discuss the stair lift etc again. If at anytime he says he will live with you, you must be totally honest with him and say that, that is not going to be possible.

Father is happy in his world, he is clinging on to the independence he has, I believe you therefore have to accept this and not allow yourself to be consumed with worry and frustration which this kind of scenario can induce. Yes, you care, love and worry for your father but you can only intervene when he will allow you to or a crisis occurs.

Know what you mean - its just hes not happy and I know I could help him.

He knows he cant live with me but it just is not sinking in. I just know that next time something happens its going to be a complete nightmare again.

Hello paulfoel,

I know you want to help him but he will not allow you to. You have to accept this. At the same time, when you visit, have a social, light hearted conversation, listen carefully to what he says and you may have an opportunity to broach a subject which is of concern to you but don't labour a point just ask him to think about your comment (whatever point it is you raise with him).

You say he is unhappy but you do not say why, probably you do not know. He may not even know why himself. His physical condition may be making him unhappy.

You have been honest with him and said he cannot live with you. Whether it sinks in or not you have been honest and open which you needed to be.

You say, quote, "next time something happens its going to be a complete nightmare again." Very often this is what happens, there is a crisis which causes further deterioration, the care and situation is revised and a new plan implemented. After which the situation stabilizes until another crisis occurs then everything is reviewed again. This cycle can, in some cases be repeated a number of times.

There may be a role reversal struggle going on here also. Father is father and he probably wishes to maintain the authority and independence which goes with it but in truth has become more dependant than he will accept (as a child is dependent). You on the other hand are the child but acting in a caring fatherly role towards your father. Role reversal is natural but it can be difficult for both to accept it is happening.

Hello paulfoel,

I know you want to help him but he will not allow you to. You have to accept this. At the same time, when you visit, have a social, light hearted conversation, listen carefully to what he says and you may have an opportunity to broach a subject which is of concern to you but don't labour a point just ask him to think about your comment (whatever point it is you raise with him).

You say he is unhappy but you do not say why, probably you do not know. He may not even know why himself. His physical condition may be making him unhappy.

You have been honest with him and said he cannot live with you. Whether it sinks in or not you have been honest and open which you needed to be.

You say, quote, "next time something happens its going to be a complete nightmare again." Very often this is what happens, there is a crisis which causes further deterioration, the care and situation is revised and a new plan implemented. After which the situation stabilizes until another crisis occurs then everything is reviewed again. This cycle can, in some cases be repeated a number of times.

There may be a role reversal struggle going on here also. Father is father and he probably wishes to maintain the authority and independence which goes with it but in truth has become more dependant than he will accept (as a child is dependent). You on the other hand are the child but acting in a caring fatherly role towards your father. Role reversal is natural but it can be difficult for both to accept it is happening.

Hes unhappy because he doesn't cope well with being ill and hates being unable to do things.Its just there so much that could be done to help him.

I know what you mean about crises causing changes. I just fear that the next crises will finish him off or he'll end up in a home whereas we could sort out stuff in advance.

Also, despite me telling him, it doesn't sink in. If hes ill he expects everyone to drop everything and sort him out. I just can't do that but he still does it no matter how many times we have the discussion. I mentioned the hospital appt thing - this is fairly typical. His attitude is Im ill so you need to drop everything and look after me. Of course, with kids and an ill wife, whereas wife has been great in the past, its not fair when he makes demands that, to be honest, are unfair.

Just re-visiting this...
He did get a stair life in the end (took months) and it cost him very little. Now he says its brilliant! Aarghhh.

We're currently going though the same thing again with a scooter.

In terms of other behaviour he is getting much much worse. Its a constant game trying avoid falling into traps where he manages to manipulate me into doing things.

Him and my wife have now fallen out. To be perfectly honest, I can't say she hasn't got a point. His behaviour has been appalling at times and he treat my children (his grandchildren!) very badly.... He literally won't even speak to them or anything - he moans when I visit and bring my daughter with me. All because I think he sees them as an inconvenience and preventing me giving himn 100% of my time.

Hes now pretty much made it clear that he expects me to put him first.

I've tried to speak to him and tell him I will do anything I can to help him. I like to think I've done my best in the past. BUT I tried to explain to him I do have other responsibilities and issues of my own and its all got to fit in somehow.

I've told him the issues I've got to try and get him to understand. We've all got issues I'm sure obviously. My wife is long term ill and got mobility issues at times, my teenage son has aspergers and we've had lots of violent incidents with him (long story), and, at 50 years of age I've got an energetic 5 year old too! Such is life of course for lots of people but it all takes its toll.

It is beginning to make me ill with all the worry to be honest. I had a bit of meltdown and told him all of this a few weeks ago. He seemed to listen.

Week later he was back to normal as bad as ever trying to manipulate me into doing things for him and drop plans I have for my kids. Its almost as if his attitude is "Oh sorry to hear about the problems I'm sure it'll work out. OK what about me then because I'm worse".

Its getting to the point where I really now don't want to speak to him or go and see him- its that bad. Yes hes my Dad but honestly, you don't know until you've had something like this with an elderly relative.

I'm not religious, but I pray sometimes, that he doesn't get worse or get dementia which causes him to get worse. I pray that he just goes on his own terms when his time is right.