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My daughter is 18 and starts uni in September,am I right in thinking that my cms payment will end at the end of august?
I spoke to someone at cms last week to get confirmation of this but they said I have to pay in September and October still.even though they sent me an email saying when child benefit stops,maintenance stops
Hello All, I have a daughter that I "think" is in approved education (as per the CMS definition) and should have completed her exams in June 23. Unfortunately, as my ex-wife and her family have managed to "persuade" my two children not to have any contact with me (the 2 contact orders I obtained were totally toothless-different story) , I can't be certain of their circumstances. Do I need to continue to pay Child Maintenance if she underperforms in her exams and wishes to retake? She'll be 19 years of age in Oct 2023. My elder child is now at university (again, I think), so I believe that it is no longer necessary to pay for them.
Thanks in advance for any advice on this.
@anders53 If your daughter remains in full-time, approved education (i.e., more than an average of 12 hours a week supervised study or course-related work experience), then yes, child maintenance will still be applicable.
Approved education for Child Maintenance is the same as its list for Child Benefit.
- A levels or similar, for example Pre-U, International Baccalaureate
- T levels
- Scottish Highers
- NVQs and other vocational qualifications up to level 3
- home education - if it started before your child turned 16 or after 16 if they have special needs
- traineeships in England
If they are re-sitting their approved exam (and subsequently left education) in the next few months (i.e., from 1 September 2023), as opposed to the full academic year (2023-24), then child maintenance is likely to cease before 31 August 2024.
- 30 November 2023
- 29 February 2024
- 31 May 2024
- 31 August 2024
I hope this is of help.
@infodesk Thanks for your response. The challenge I face is that the CSA states that I will need to continue to pay if my ex-wife continues to claim child benefit. As my wife and I haven't communicated in years, I doubt that she'll volunteer whether she continues to receive child benefit. The CSA says that it will be notified, but will the CSA notify me? Neither my ex-wife nor children have let me know how they performed in their exams etc. I only found out today that they no longer use my surname and have adopted to use my ex-wife's maiden name.
Hi all,
Found this thread amazingly interesting given my current situtation and really don't want to bore everyone with too much detail it's just I've spent the last couple of week getting bounced pillar to post trying to understand what my situation is at this time...
I've paid Child Maintenance since 2019 via Voluntary Arrangment with the ex. never missed payment and occasionally far exceeded that which was agreed without complaint the current rate I'm at is £545 p/mth payment due 1st Sep 2023.
My question surrounds this mystifying "Further Education" and the age of your child etc.
In this instance my daughter turned 17 in Apr of this year, in Sep of 2022 at the age of 16 she signed up for college to resit her Maths GCSE and an NVQ L2 Social Sciences course...the GCSE studies were Mon & Tue each week and the Social Sciences Wed each week.
Now herein is the problem I have, as there is very little reasonable communication between my ex and unfortunately my daughter being a typical 17yr old with a boyfriend has next to no time to explain things in detail which led me to look into her acedemic record with the college where I found out that she had quit the Social Sciences course prior to Christmas 2022 added to which there were numerous incidents (this is how the college has reported it to me after a lengthy discussion) wherin she failed to attend class, failed to submit homework or atually left lessons half way through to attend a job she had sourced at a local garden centre.
As a result her attendance for the period of Sep 22 to Apr 23 was recorded as 73% and an intervention was called, this all being news to me! As not once had I been informed as I am an emergency contact after her mother and her mothers friend and am not privy nor informed of her performance, attendance etc.
So as of Apr 23 my daughter was working (for a limited time as she was let go after the prelim period for bad attedance a pattern forms).
Her GCSE results land on 24th this week but it would appear from reading above that her having to resit once more does not count towards her being in further education or am I misreading this in someway?
Added to which for the entire period she was working and not actually in college attending course nor meeting the required hours p/wk for education this has me stumped as I've paid this entire period throughout!
The college furhermore have informed me that prior to acceptance she must agree to some form of arrangement for attendance and they will inform me of her hours per week that are classed as "supervised education".
I'm trying to figure out if whether the ex should have informed HMRC (I understand this should be an automatic thing for them anyway?) to inform them of the circumstance and how it may effect her benefit which in turn would effectively also have an impact on my payments to date?
If anyone here can shed any light on this I would be most grateful as I've spent hours on hold to Benefits and CMS to get answers but to no avail.
I'm trying to ascertain if I for the coming month should continue paying or bring up a grievance that I have paid since the Apr of this year when I needn't have?
Either way the payment due the 1st Sep I'm wishing to hold back on due to the fact that she might not even recieve a place at the college as she must first, with her mother, attend this intevention and panel to decide if she can study a new NVQ course which is to be held around the 5th or 6th Sep.
Anyone with something similar or any advice at all I'd gladly take it as it's almost impossible to find the information required.
Thanks to all.
@bill337 Thanks I'd actually watched the video prior to joining the site as it was informative and helped in someway better understand things.
So in essence is the fact that my daughter left further education end of April latest (she was not attending college at this point) but sat her last Maths GCSE as of 19th June (after speaking with the college) that effectively she was still in further education? Even though she had obtained a job via the Job Centre and that time was working more than 24hrs p/wk?
Are the exams she sat still counted towards being in further education and the Child Benefit Agency will continue to pay, otherwise if the exams don't count as further education then benefits should cease as of Sep and effectively I should have ceased payments as of May when she told me of her job (via the local job centre) she had obtained after being let go from the previous employment she had attained but this was less than 24hrs p/wk.
Again if anyone has come across anything similar I'd be most grateful for any advice on this matter.
@zymada Even though your daughter took her exams in May, child maintenance is not based on the standard academic year (September - July) in England and Wales. The Child Maintenance Service (CMS) includes the period between July (or June if an independent school) to 31 August so it's aligned with when Child Benefit (which would also seize on 31 August - where applicable) stops.
Unfortunately, the CMS' own published guidance is misleading, as it leads the paying parent to believe that child maintenance stops the date the payee's son or daughter leaves full-time, non-advanced education, which is invariably in June/July. It raises the question, how can a child still be considered to be in full-time education when they've finished their CGSEs or A level exams and the school is closed (until September).
In more cases than not, the paying parent doesn't know if the receiving (child maintenance) parent is claiming Child Benefit; however, it's arguably good practice to notify the Child Maintenance Service that you're child has left school at the end of July (even if you don't have access to the school calendar), as it will leave as indent on their system.
You can expect to receive a frustrating reply to the effect of: We have spoken with the other parent (even if they haven't - which I know to be the cases I'm familiar with) but.... (See below for seemingly automated response):
"We asked [Receiving Parent's Name] to confirm this but we were told the change has not happened. We then gave you the opportunity to dispute this, but so far we haven’t received any suitable evidence from you to confirm what you originally told us.
"As a result, our records still show your child is in full time education and still qualifies as a child for child maintenance purposes."
The CMS is still (at least up to 23 August 2023) issuing these standard unsubstantiated responses, which is highly unethical, as they're not based on fact. To say that they have spoken with the other parent when they haven't and then seemingly give the paying parent, i.e., 24 hours to respond, is just wrong on so many levels. It's something I have brought to their attention and to the attention of the Independent Case Examiner.
What their reply should say is: Thank you for advising us that your son/daughter has left full-time education. For the purpose of child maintenance, payments will continue until Child Benefit seizes to be applicable, which is normally after 31 August, or while the child remains in full-time non-advanced education.
Apparently, HMRC notifies the Child Maintenance Service when Child Benefit is no longer applicable, which is normally the first week in September to allow for an administration turnaround period. However, the hard and fast date for when Child Benefit finishes should be 31 August.
I hope this is of help.
@infodesk Thanks for your insight & advice. As you indicate, it doesn't sound like the CSA are on top of things and are providing unsubstantiated information to the paying parent. I have been paying my ex-wife directly (i.e. not via the CSA ). I am therefore minded to cease my payments after the next payment (i.e. in September). I'm afraid the whole system needs a total upheaval, in my opinion.
@infodesk Hi, I read your info and I have a similar situation.
All my info I have is based on what Im told by the RP (recieving parent).....
"Child" in question, left college End of june having completed their full course (meaning no intention of any further courses).
Ive read about the child benefit cut off dates which I understand to be linked with cms cut off dates?
Basically, Im trying to find out or understand if my payments are no longer eligible from the August 31st date?
Because either, the 'child' will be no longer in approved education whilst looking for employment OR will enter into an apprenteship which I gather makes payments no longer applicable.
Of course, any info from the RP is taken with a pinch of salt (why would they honestly say that payments are no longer needed?)
I have thought about calling the CMS for some "official guidance", but after learning about how incapable they can be at actually helping people with questions, Im a little reluctant to approach them.
Any other additional info you may be able to give will be highly appreciated.
@infodesk I had this same letter this morning, after notify CMS yesterday 31 Aug 24 after 4pm that my daughter was off to uni.
Good morning
I am caught up in the paying parent fiasco as my son left school on the 21st June but due to legislation I am expected to pay until September. I did not make any payments from July as I feel really aggrieved at this outdated process. CMS are now chasing me as my delightful ex-wife reported me in July for non-payment. It is always the paying parent who suffers financially. I have written to my MP to ask her to lobby on behalf of paying parents to get this system overhauled as other Government sites, e.g., DVLA, records are updated immediately.
If the receiving parent notifies CMS that they want the case closed does anyone know if CMS will stop expecting payments or do they follow the legislation get out clause? Unlikely in my case as my ex wants every last penny.
I would like to suggest that every paying parent whose child has left education in June to lobby their MP for change to occur as when I emailed my MP they had never had a complaint of this nature before. It seems paying dads just put up with this!
Child maintenance after a child leaves education can be confusing. Thanks, Bill, for the helpful video link on child benefit cut-off dates and maintenance payments.
Regards, Edward
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