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Interesting how many people have a similar problem still trying to resolve. My ex and I share 50/50 care. No argument re that. She applied and got CM. I rang and disputed, had a mandatory reconsideration turned down as 50/50 care was not disputed and therefore no change.
I spoke to someone who agreed something was not quite right and they put my case to their technical team who closed the case.
My wife put in a mandatory reconsideration and was turned down. She then put in a tribunal request that is awaited. Partly due to the fact that the first person she spoke to assured her she had a case based on child benefit.
Fingers crossed that the tribunal goes by way and keeps the case closed.
Hello Everyone,
I've been reviewing this topic, and it seems my situation shares some similarities while differing in certain aspects. I seek your guidance on the likelihood of receiving a favorable decision at the CMS Tribunal. I married in 2013, had our first child in 2014, and the second in 2018. During the marriage, I, as the father, claimed child benefit and received payments directly deposited into the children's savings account. The mother, not yet a British citizen at the time, couldn't claim. I believe the application was solely in my name, not joint. Although the child benefit was repaid to HMRC due to our combined income exceeding £50k, I remained the Child Tax Credit beneficiary and still am. I moved out in September 2021, and in March 2022, the mother initiated a child maintenance case, six months after I left and two months before I moved to my new residence. Since separation, I've had care of the children for three out of four weekends, half-terms, and most holidays, totaling around 150 nights per year (band C on the CMS books). Despite paying an annual child maintenance of approximately £7k for two children, I find this unfair for several reasons: I've consistently been involved in the children's upbringing and day-to-day care. Even after moving out, I attend medical appointments, school meetings, sports clubs, and church with them. I handle their homework at weekends, and I've set up their life at my house, sharing responsibilities. In December 2023 a family court ruled that both parent have a 'Live-with-order' and that because the children were settled in the current schedule and there is no safety concerns, the court is happy for the myself and the children's mother to come to an agreement in relation to any changes to the children overnight stay. Multiple times I offered the mother ed to pay 50/50 of the children's costs and to increase the number of nights the children spend with me to 180 night per year, this being to include a Thursday night, equaling to 50/50 split on number of nights, however, the mother refuses with no particular reason which leads me to reaffirm that the mother's interest on claiming CMS is solely for financial gain. Moving out incurred additional costs for the children's well-being. Men often bear setup costs for a new home, unlike mothers. I had to use credit cards and loans for expenses like a car to pick up and drop off the children—expenses not considered by CMA but often lead fathers into debt along with CMA payments. Child financial responsibility should be shared, but CMS hasn't assessed maintenance based on both parents' incomes. Child benefit was repaid based on the couple's earnings. Why doesn't CMA consider the mother's income in determining child maintenance? Shouldn't she share financial responsibility? The Mother earns well and has received inheritance funds. We are still in the process of the financial settlement and although there is no family home as an asset to dispute, I have asked the mother to stop the child maintenance payments on the financial agreement that i would not claim share of her inheritance. The financial remedy court case is due in May 2024. In summary, I left the marriage with debt and had to start from scratch whilst always attempting to come to an agreement with the mother to share the costs and responsibilities of the children. The mother claims child maintenance payments and is not willing to increase the number of night the children spend with me. I have a court live with order for the current schedule of 150 nights and I am the original child benefit claimant but the CMA still base the application of on the number of nights and not on the 'day-to-day' care.
@abner_uk I'm assuming your tribunal has passed. With respect to how CMS operates they have rules they follow as per their "step-by-step guide". They also have some other guidance they don't publish which their case workers follow (eg they look at who receives child benefit as a way to determine who has primary care of the child). All the other ins and outs of your case are irrelevant. You must accept this and work within the confines of these rules and guidance.
There are 2 key parts to the CMS calculation that I want to focus on.
1 - p27 of the guide: number of nights of the paying parent used to discount the payment. Extremely important: it says more than 175 nights = 50% discount. There is no higher banding!! Half of 365 days in a year = 182. What this means is that even if you have 200 nights a year or 300 nights a year you can still be made to pay!! The fatal mistake everyone makes is equating the number of nights with "day to day care" which is the term used in legislation. Rightly or wrongly, just accept they are separate.
2 - p29 of the guide: when day-to-day care of a child is equal. Here their own guidance given to case workers is not published. But the number of nights is not a factor. The first thing they look at is who receives child benefit as a quick and dirty way to assess who the primary carer is (or in their language "Person With Care" aka "PWC"). You can still get child benefit with less nights than the mother if there are 2 or more children and you still have the children for a substantial amount of time. Next they look at day-to-day care as they define it. This includes: who takes the child to doctors and dentist appointments, who purchases the child's school uniform/lunches/trips/child care (eg breakfast/after school clubs/nanny), and who pays for the child's extra-curricular activities. Importantly note that most of these items represent "who pays for ..." questions, which makes sense because the child maintenance is to help determine who has the greater financial burden for the child. Nights are not a factor.
What this means is that you can still stop paying child maintenance even with fewer nights than the mother. I would pay for all expenses, in full, and offer the mother to pay for the children's clubs etc.. as well. She'll agree of course. Save all emails and receipts. Wait 3-6 months then make an application to stop payments and add all your evidence when doing so.
I have been fighting the CMS for 2 years now and just had my case closed by the CMS within 24hours. However, the worst is now to come..................
To start from the beginning. I have my kids 3 nights a week (Fri, Sat and Sun nights), take them to School 5 morning a week, and have them for 50% school holidays. My ex's Solicitor had said the agreed amount, with was based on 3 nights a week only. I assumed being a Solicitor it was correct. My ex complained it wasn't enough, and wanted more, so I decided to go through the CMS and have it done exactly, so no comeback. The payments then dropped by £100 a month based on them including the School holidays. I then started paying monthly as per the CMS calculations. Over a 2 year period my ex contacted the CMS to keep asking them to look at my salary (5x in two years) saying I had additional income, or unearned income. I kept complaining to the CMS about this. after the first 12 months, a case worker told me I shouldn't be paying as I was 50/50 with her. Went through alot of questions, and said to send in the evidence which I did. But after waiting 6 months to look at it, they came back and ruled in her favour, based on her having Child Benefit in her name for both kids.
I applied for CB, and I was awarded it for one of our children, so one each. I then waited a couple of months, just in case she tried appealing. Then called the CMS and spoke to a case worker for 2.5hours (with being on hold), and he said the case is likely to be closed. I also mentioned the Section 50 aspect as well. I also submitted 30 pieces of evidence of kids names registered at my address (Doctors, Dentists, Hospital, Optitions, School, local LEA, etc.)
The case was then subsequently closed within 24hours by the CMS.
However, I have now had my ex apply for a new application for both our children, 1 week 2 days after the CMS closed the case. But she has lied and told them she has full custody (I am guessing based on the amounts) but the CMS (under my old reference no), have come back to say the my monthly amount is 3x what it was 2 weeks ago.
Surely, they would look at their own case notes, realise that they closed it, and shut her case as well?
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to share my own recent experience with CMS for the benefit of others. I have read through lots of pages on this forum over the last year or more and have found it of huge help, so it’s only right that I pass on my experience and what I have learned.
My ex and I separated in Sept 2020; we have two kids who were then aged 7 and 4 and like so many people here it was me who moved out to try and make things as ‘simple’ for her as possible. Caring for the children was split exactly 50/50 and I continued to pay for many things, including the matrimonial home, the mortgage for which was in my name. I’m in Northern Ireland, so a no fault divorce here takes two years of separation before proceedings can even commence.
It was around September 2023 when I was notified that she had applied for Child Support payments. CMS in NI is a separate organisation but my experience of them was no better than many here dealing with CMS GB.
My ex had stated that although the children stayed 50/50 with each parent, she was responsible for the majority of all childcare and all the costs. Despite me disputing this with the call handler, less than a week later I got a letter telling me that they had worked out my payments, which to say the least was significantly more than I could possibly afford at that time.
I applied for a review of the decision and eventually an MR; at each stage I was presenting what I felt was good evidence and was rewarded with the same result each time – a letter telling me that no changes would be made to the original decision. The deciding factor appeared to be that my ex was in receipt of all Child Benefit.
In February (after reading this forum) I applied for the Child Benefit. I presented the same evidence to HMRC and after several months, I was awarded Child Benefit for one child as HMRC said the care was clearly shared equally.
Armed with this, I applied again to CMS for a review. Again CMS rejected my application to close the case, but modified my payments slightly to reflect one child rather than two (by the way, this is not half, it is only a slight reduction overall).
My next step was to apply to CMS for child maintenance payments from my ex but the decision making for this went on for over two months. I requested to take the matter to tribunal and was told to wait until the CMS reviewed the case first, to decide whether they would contest it at an independent legal panel.
Eventually, just last month I received a series of letters and texts telling me that all cases are closed and no arrears are owed. CMS have now ruled that neither parent is the primary carer.
I know that this post is a bit long, but I wanted to show that it really pays to hang in and fight, if you know for a fact that you are equally sharing the care of your children. Many times I had friends and family tell me that I should just accept that I wasn’t going to win; that the stress of fighting it and constantly getting knocked back would take its toll on my mental health.
I will prepare another separate post on what is involved in the application for Child Benefit for HMRC and also I’ll share the structure I used for the evidence pack I presented to CMS. I feel if I had known what was involved in both, it would have been easier to gather the evidence right from the start, so the least I can do is share that with you all.
@ballisticpirate thanks - this is really helpful and similar to my experience so far. Did you ever upload your tips on making a child benefit claim? I'm just in the process of starting that. My ex claimed it because she was on mat leave and her income was lower, not because she was the primary carer. She is now in the position that if her CMS claim comes through (and she works full time, like I do) she will be earning more than me. It just feels like the system is really unfair.
@ballisticpirate Hi Im in a similar situation are you able to provide a list of what type of evidence is required for shared care in a structured way Many thanks
@ballisticpirate, any chance that you could outline the process and documents you gathered for your successful outcome please? Thank you.
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