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Just a quick update, I have raised a mandatory reconsideration, even asked my employer for an email/letter acknowledging the fact I have changed my working arrangements to WFH the week I have the boys. Just something I can upload to CMS, I know i maybe 'clutching at straws' but willing to try anything. All I get is "I need to supply evidence" but never told what. I have offered to take photos of my boys uniforms, bedrooms, to prove the setup they have. I have even thought about getting a ring doorbell and uploading the video showing me doing school drop off/pick ups etc, anything to stop this and my ex wife's lies.
I have also found a very good solicitor who is now going to write to my ex, in the first instance, about child arrangements and if she will not accept terms then we going for a court order.
- Hi has anyone progressed to tribunal ? I have mine next week and I’m so worried I will lose . CSA want £68 a week for mother I have 50/50 with . I also pay £277 for a child I have no access to . This will utterly cripple me . I am not off sick from work as I am on the verge of a mental break down . I don’t know where I’ll get the money from to continue paying for my sons ju jitsu and swimming lessons and also for petrol for all the pick ups and drop offs I do . 28 mile trip almost every day . It’s even more galling when I have a CAFCASS report that states mother struggled with day to day care which is the reason I was rewarded 50/50 which almost led to me having full custody . I am broken.
@nathbeckcooke hi .. have you had any luck ? I’ve got my tribunal next week . Bricking it
I went through an absolute battle with CMS to get them to stop child maintenance payments when I had 50/50 shared care. Especially as mother gets the child benefits!
I quoted this a few times to them, in writing via secure messaging and post, and, phone! It did take a few months though....
Please refer to The Child Maintenance Service “How We Work Out Child Maintenance, A step-by-step guide”, which is enclosed, see Page 29, which states:
“Q: What happens if the day-to-day care of a child is equal between a
paying parent and a receiving parent?A: In this situation, the paying parent does not have to pay any childmaintenance for that child.”
The Child Support Maintenance Calculation Regulations 2012, Chapter 4, Special Cases, Clause 50 states that I cannot be classified as a non-resident parent because;
a. I do not provide day to day care to a lesser extent than mother. I have my son 50% of the month, taking him to nursery, medical appointments etc.
b. The Court Order I have provided clearly states that care is 50% between father and mother that there is an equal amount of night and day care between both parents, therefore, the rationale that the parent i.e. the mother receiving child benefit is a “resident parent” is incorrect. The Court Order overrides this as it states both parents have an absolute equal live with arrangement.
I am not a non-resident parent, and determining this by who receives Child Benefit is incorrect as evidence has been provided that there is an absolute equal live with shared care arrangement.
“Parent treated as a non-resident parent in shared care cases
50.—(1) Where the circumstances of a case are that–
(a) an application is made by a person with care under section 4 of the 1991
Act(a); and
(b) the person named in that application as the non-resident parent of the
qualifying child also provides a home for that child (in a different household
from the applicant) and shares the day to day care of that child with the
applicant,the case is to be treated as a special case for the purposes of the 1991 Act.
(2) For the purposes of this special case, the person mentioned in paragraph (1)(b)
is to be treated as the non-resident parent if, and only if, that person provides day to
day care to a lesser extent than the applicant.(3) Where the applicant is receiving child benefit in respect of the qualifying child
the applicant is assumed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to be providing
day to day care to a greater extent than any other person.”
Hi All,
I stumbled upon this as I'm currently going through this process and hoping to gain some knowledge and perhaps some support as so far Child Maintenance (CM) have made me feel like a lower lifeform.
I have been going through this and I'm now at the point where my mandatory reconsideration has been rejected and I will need to appeal to try and have legislation 50 applied and it acknowledged that I have 5050 day to day shared care of my daughter.
I provided CM with so much evidence of me providing day to day care in terms of financially, medically, emotionally and just basically in any way I could think, they have however ruled that because I don't have a court order (I tried way back and my daughters mother ignored the letters from a solicitor to which I was told I have good access so shouldn't take it any further as wouldrisk losing that access) and the mother gets Child Benefit that I was not seen to have shared day to day care. They also stated that they took verbal evidence from her that the amount of time I have my daughter was not correct.
They have left me on their shared care band so I get a discount in the amount I pay however my daughters mother still expects me to pay for other items such as school clothes, glasses and other items citing what I pay is the bare minimum.
This isn't about the money for me btw, I have no issue with paying for my child, however I can't afford to be the dad I want to be and also pay Child Maintenance. Ie when her mother refuses to pay for her glasses which she needs to be able to see properly and read under CM rules I don't need to buy her these and if I do I am so voluntarily, however as a father I just can't let my daughter go without and then find myself having to put these kind of purchases ahead of myself being able to eat towards the end of the month.
My question is do I go through the stress of appeal? Has anyone on here been through the appeal process with a tribunal and can provide me with some advice? OR do I just stick to exact rules and pay my CM and no more other than the cost of having my daughter when I have her.
@girldad32 hi, there are many paying parents who have and are currently going through the appeals process for this situation. recommend you join this group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/239699060076601
@carmad hi, do you mind sharing the details of your solicitor? Did they manage to resolve it for you?
If you have a court order saying equal care the both parent do not have more or less day-to-day care of the child then "Special Cases" is applied under "The special Cases in The Child Support Maintenance Calculation Regulation 2012, Chapter 4, Clause 50" https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/2677/regulation/50/made
CMS are misunderstanding the regulations as they apply the following clause out of context as follows: "Clause 50 (3) Where the applicant is receiving child benefit in respect of the qualifying child the applicant is assumed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to be providing day to day care to a greater extent than any other person."
CMS make the assumption that if someone receives Child Benefit they are referred to a the "Primary Carer" or "Receiving Parent". They ignore the rest of the sentence that says " to be providing day to day care to a greater extent than any other person." which is not correct. I have spoken to CMS and explained this and they agree that I am correct and they claim this will be addressed and raised. The man I spoke too was called Joff (Team Leader) who was very understanding on the 7-Feb-2024 @ 11:10 whom confirmed this will be addressed and raised. I should point out that the term "Primary Carer" has not existed in the family courts for over 10 years. However, my hope is this will be addressed and people will not find themselves in the same position.
However, I have found on this website this has been happening for some time and nothing has changed so my intension is contact my local MP as they are not following the regulations correctly and it needs to be addressed.
Interesting how many people have a similar problem still trying to resolve. My ex and I share 50/50 care. No argument re that. She applied and got CM. I rang and disputed, had a mandatory reconsideration turned down as 50/50 care was not disputed and therefore no change.
I spoke to someone who agreed something was not quite right and they put my case to their technical team who closed the case.
My wife put in a mandatory reconsideration and was turned down. She then put in a tribunal request that is awaited. Partly due to the fact that the first person she spoke to assured her she had a case based on child benefit.
Fingers crossed that the tribunal goes by way and keeps the case closed.
Hello Everyone,
I've been reviewing this topic, and it seems my situation shares some similarities while differing in certain aspects. I seek your guidance on the likelihood of receiving a favorable decision at the CMS Tribunal. I married in 2013, had our first child in 2014, and the second in 2018. During the marriage, I, as the father, claimed child benefit and received payments directly deposited into the children's savings account. The mother, not yet a British citizen at the time, couldn't claim. I believe the application was solely in my name, not joint. Although the child benefit was repaid to HMRC due to our combined income exceeding £50k, I remained the Child Tax Credit beneficiary and still am. I moved out in September 2021, and in March 2022, the mother initiated a child maintenance case, six months after I left and two months before I moved to my new residence. Since separation, I've had care of the children for three out of four weekends, half-terms, and most holidays, totaling around 150 nights per year (band C on the CMS books). Despite paying an annual child maintenance of approximately £7k for two children, I find this unfair for several reasons: I've consistently been involved in the children's upbringing and day-to-day care. Even after moving out, I attend medical appointments, school meetings, sports clubs, and church with them. I handle their homework at weekends, and I've set up their life at my house, sharing responsibilities. In December 2023 a family court ruled that both parent have a 'Live-with-order' and that because the children were settled in the current schedule and there is no safety concerns, the court is happy for the myself and the children's mother to come to an agreement in relation to any changes to the children overnight stay. Multiple times I offered the mother ed to pay 50/50 of the children's costs and to increase the number of nights the children spend with me to 180 night per year, this being to include a Thursday night, equaling to 50/50 split on number of nights, however, the mother refuses with no particular reason which leads me to reaffirm that the mother's interest on claiming CMS is solely for financial gain. Moving out incurred additional costs for the children's well-being. Men often bear setup costs for a new home, unlike mothers. I had to use credit cards and loans for expenses like a car to pick up and drop off the children—expenses not considered by CMA but often lead fathers into debt along with CMA payments. Child financial responsibility should be shared, but CMS hasn't assessed maintenance based on both parents' incomes. Child benefit was repaid based on the couple's earnings. Why doesn't CMA consider the mother's income in determining child maintenance? Shouldn't she share financial responsibility? The Mother earns well and has received inheritance funds. We are still in the process of the financial settlement and although there is no family home as an asset to dispute, I have asked the mother to stop the child maintenance payments on the financial agreement that i would not claim share of her inheritance. The financial remedy court case is due in May 2024. In summary, I left the marriage with debt and had to start from scratch whilst always attempting to come to an agreement with the mother to share the costs and responsibilities of the children. The mother claims child maintenance payments and is not willing to increase the number of night the children spend with me. I have a court live with order for the current schedule of 150 nights and I am the original child benefit claimant but the CMA still base the application of on the number of nights and not on the 'day-to-day' care.
@abner_uk I'm assuming your tribunal has passed. With respect to how CMS operates they have rules they follow as per their "step-by-step guide". They also have some other guidance they don't publish which their case workers follow (eg they look at who receives child benefit as a way to determine who has primary care of the child). All the other ins and outs of your case are irrelevant. You must accept this and work within the confines of these rules and guidance.
There are 2 key parts to the CMS calculation that I want to focus on.
1 - p27 of the guide: number of nights of the paying parent used to discount the payment. Extremely important: it says more than 175 nights = 50% discount. There is no higher banding!! Half of 365 days in a year = 182. What this means is that even if you have 200 nights a year or 300 nights a year you can still be made to pay!! The fatal mistake everyone makes is equating the number of nights with "day to day care" which is the term used in legislation. Rightly or wrongly, just accept they are separate.
2 - p29 of the guide: when day-to-day care of a child is equal. Here their own guidance given to case workers is not published. But the number of nights is not a factor. The first thing they look at is who receives child benefit as a quick and dirty way to assess who the primary carer is (or in their language "Person With Care" aka "PWC"). You can still get child benefit with less nights than the mother if there are 2 or more children and you still have the children for a substantial amount of time. Next they look at day-to-day care as they define it. This includes: who takes the child to doctors and dentist appointments, who purchases the child's school uniform/lunches/trips/child care (eg breakfast/after school clubs/nanny), and who pays for the child's extra-curricular activities. Importantly note that most of these items represent "who pays for ..." questions, which makes sense because the child maintenance is to help determine who has the greater financial burden for the child. Nights are not a factor.
What this means is that you can still stop paying child maintenance even with fewer nights than the mother. I would pay for all expenses, in full, and offer the mother to pay for the children's clubs etc.. as well. She'll agree of course. Save all emails and receipts. Wait 3-6 months then make an application to stop payments and add all your evidence when doing so.
I have been fighting the CMS for 2 years now and just had my case closed by the CMS within 24hours. However, the worst is now to come..................
To start from the beginning. I have my kids 3 nights a week (Fri, Sat and Sun nights), take them to School 5 morning a week, and have them for 50% school holidays. My ex's Solicitor had said the agreed amount, with was based on 3 nights a week only. I assumed being a Solicitor it was correct. My ex complained it wasn't enough, and wanted more, so I decided to go through the CMS and have it done exactly, so no comeback. The payments then dropped by £100 a month based on them including the School holidays. I then started paying monthly as per the CMS calculations. Over a 2 year period my ex contacted the CMS to keep asking them to look at my salary (5x in two years) saying I had additional income, or unearned income. I kept complaining to the CMS about this. after the first 12 months, a case worker told me I shouldn't be paying as I was 50/50 with her. Went through alot of questions, and said to send in the evidence which I did. But after waiting 6 months to look at it, they came back and ruled in her favour, based on her having Child Benefit in her name for both kids.
I applied for CB, and I was awarded it for one of our children, so one each. I then waited a couple of months, just in case she tried appealing. Then called the CMS and spoke to a case worker for 2.5hours (with being on hold), and he said the case is likely to be closed. I also mentioned the Section 50 aspect as well. I also submitted 30 pieces of evidence of kids names registered at my address (Doctors, Dentists, Hospital, Optitions, School, local LEA, etc.)
The case was then subsequently closed within 24hours by the CMS.
However, I have now had my ex apply for a new application for both our children, 1 week 2 days after the CMS closed the case. But she has lied and told them she has full custody (I am guessing based on the amounts) but the CMS (under my old reference no), have come back to say the my monthly amount is 3x what it was 2 weeks ago.
Surely, they would look at their own case notes, realise that they closed it, and shut her case as well?
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to share my own recent experience with CMS for the benefit of others. I have read through lots of pages on this forum over the last year or more and have found it of huge help, so it’s only right that I pass on my experience and what I have learned.
My ex and I separated in Sept 2020; we have two kids who were then aged 7 and 4 and like so many people here it was me who moved out to try and make things as ‘simple’ for her as possible. Caring for the children was split exactly 50/50 and I continued to pay for many things, including the matrimonial home, the mortgage for which was in my name. I’m in Northern Ireland, so a no fault divorce here takes two years of separation before proceedings can even commence.
It was around September 2023 when I was notified that she had applied for Child Support payments. CMS in NI is a separate organisation but my experience of them was no better than many here dealing with CMS GB.
My ex had stated that although the children stayed 50/50 with each parent, she was responsible for the majority of all childcare and all the costs. Despite me disputing this with the call handler, less than a week later I got a letter telling me that they had worked out my payments, which to say the least was significantly more than I could possibly afford at that time.
I applied for a review of the decision and eventually an MR; at each stage I was presenting what I felt was good evidence and was rewarded with the same result each time – a letter telling me that no changes would be made to the original decision. The deciding factor appeared to be that my ex was in receipt of all Child Benefit.
In February (after reading this forum) I applied for the Child Benefit. I presented the same evidence to HMRC and after several months, I was awarded Child Benefit for one child as HMRC said the care was clearly shared equally.
Armed with this, I applied again to CMS for a review. Again CMS rejected my application to close the case, but modified my payments slightly to reflect one child rather than two (by the way, this is not half, it is only a slight reduction overall).
My next step was to apply to CMS for child maintenance payments from my ex but the decision making for this went on for over two months. I requested to take the matter to tribunal and was told to wait until the CMS reviewed the case first, to decide whether they would contest it at an independent legal panel.
Eventually, just last month I received a series of letters and texts telling me that all cases are closed and no arrears are owed. CMS have now ruled that neither parent is the primary carer.
I know that this post is a bit long, but I wanted to show that it really pays to hang in and fight, if you know for a fact that you are equally sharing the care of your children. Many times I had friends and family tell me that I should just accept that I wasn’t going to win; that the stress of fighting it and constantly getting knocked back would take its toll on my mental health.
I will prepare another separate post on what is involved in the application for Child Benefit for HMRC and also I’ll share the structure I used for the evidence pack I presented to CMS. I feel if I had known what was involved in both, it would have been easier to gather the evidence right from the start, so the least I can do is share that with you all.
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