Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:
Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.
Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.
If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help
Hi guys, signed up here because I wanted to find a place where I could get advice from other dad's who may have had a similar situation to me or can offer advice.
Long story short(ish!) - I have a 2 year old daughter, me and her mother split up just before our daughters 1st birthday (we weren't married). I'm a full time university student but also work 20 hours a week (started working when daughter was born to better support them), my ex was in college for the past year but didn't work. Ex would have daughter on weekdays and I would have her over the weekend.
Whilst the situation was like this we agreed between us I would give her £25 a week as child maintenance but I also paid £15 on top for half the childcare costs (rest was paid by exes college).
My ex has now moved to Scotland (almost 4 hours away from me) and she has our daughter with her permanently. Obviously this has put a financial strain (as well as the obvious fact I see my daughter a lot less) due to train fares etc. I plan on visiting every other weekend if I can.
When my ex moved we agreed that I would continue to give her £25 a week, as childcare is no longer a cost. She said that if I could continue to give her £25 a week she would not as me for money for anything else. However it didn't take long until I got texts asking for money for gymnastics & ballet classes and also clothes. I agreed and didn't mention that she said she wouldn't ask me for any more money other than the £25 weekly.
Now I have had a text message from her telling me the £25 needs to increase to £40 every week, claiming that £25 isn't enough on my part and "as she gets older she needs more things like ballet and clothes etc". She said that she would give me £20 back every 2 weeks to help towards train fare to go see my daughter.
I initially ignored the message, giving myself time to think. Then another message came through asking me when she could expect to start getting £40 weekly from me. I explained that I can't afford to give her £40 weekly, but that I would increase it to £30 and explained that if she was going to give me £20 back every 2 weeks for my train tickets then it would work out as £30 weekly anyway.
As I imagined, she wasn't happy with that. Her response was
"No. £40 please. I'm sorry but you're her dad and you need to play your part financially. You managed it before regardless of what it was for so you can manage it again. She is older now and £25 isn't enough. Neither is 30."
I haven't replied to that yet.
I went on the CSA website and it calculated that I should be giving her £12 a week, so currently I am giving her just over double and if I were to give her £30 that would be 2.5x the amount. Like I said I work 20 hours a week, but I am planning on quitting my job early November as I am going back to university in September and it's my last year, I was doing my final year last year but had to suspend my year because I was working 5 nights a week and having my daughter every weekend and had no time to study. I can't afford to fail and I'm not going to repeat what happened last year.
When I stop working I'll be a student, and legally don't have to give her any child maintenance but I wouldn't ever stop giving her anything.
I'm pissed off too because her parents have bought her a brand new house and brand new car, she gets all this money from her family whereas I'm struggling to live week by week and she's trying to bleed me dry. I've heard so many stories from people who know people who are separated with children and the mother only gets £1 per week or something ridiculous.
Last year I had to go through a debt relief order because things got so bad but I always gave her the money we agreed on. I've been warned off the CSA by a few people, but I'm really starting to think that's what I'm going to have to do because she can't argue with them.
I would still give her more than the £12 they state though. I just know that whatever I do unless I give her £40 a week she is going to threaten me with our child and say that I can't see her or I can't have her for things for example I'm suppose to be having her in a few weeks for my dad's 60th, it wouldn't surprise me if she said I could no longer have her for that.
Sorry for the long post, just trying to explain things best I can. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
Hi John, I think you're being reasonable. Have you considered going to Mediation with your ex? You would be able to discuss finances and contact arrangements with the help of a neutral third party? This might prevent the situation escalating and hopefully avoid issues over finance affecting the contact arrangements. Finances should not affect contact but sadly, a lot of parents use it as a bargaining tool.
It sounds like you would qualify for Legal Aid for Mediation and under the new guidelines, if one party qualifies for this, the other party's first session is free too?
Have a look at the National Family Mediation website. www.nfm.org.uk
Good luck.
Thank you, it's good to hear someone else say that.
We tried mediation last year, but it didn't do anything for me. There were loads of issues I wanted to discuss but they (and my ex) just focused on what would happen in terms of contact when my ex and daughter moved to Scotland. I wasn't given the opportunity to talk about my worries (such as my ex threatening loss of contact over money etc.) and to be honest the mediators didn't help me out at all. And I couldn't go back to mediation because my ex refused. She'd probably refuse again.
If I tell her I'm only going to give her £25/£30 weekly not the £40 she's asking for, and she threatens things such as less contact etc what are my options?
Could you write to her and attach a screen shot of the CSA liability to show that you're being reasonable in offering to pay more? That might be a starting point?
In terms of what you can do - in England your options would be Mediation followed by a court application, if no agreement was reached. Since April this year, Mediation is now mandatory before applying to court and attendance a year ago would not count. I'm not certain if this is the same in Scotland. There's a few Dads on here in Scotland that might know if the process is the same.
Here's a couple of links that might be useful;
http://www.fnfscotland.org.uk/
http://www.relationships-scotland.org.uk/family-mediation
Court is always a last option and should be avoided where possible, I would try to agree between you or attempt Mediation again as first options.
Good luck 🙂
The court system is different in Scotland however Child Maintenance law covers the whole of the uk and does not differ (though that might change after the independence referendum).
I would screenshot your liability as 1626 suggested and send that to her - is she threatening to stop access if you don't meet her demands or are you concerned that she might?
Gooner.
I may have missed a piece here but why dont you open a case with CMS and have them calculate it and they will send the calculation to your former as well so she will have the information from the horses mouth as it were?
If further discussion results in you deciding to pay more then you can but your former will be very clear on what it is she is "due".
Regards,
Dave
I would screenshot your liability as 1626 suggested and send that to her - is she threatening to stop access if you don't meet her demands or are you concerned that she might?
Gooner.
That is what I'm afraid of and I know she'll likely threaten. For example she told me once that I could not see my daughter unless I picked her up at 7.30am to take her to childcare (I wanted to pick her up at 7) so you can see how something so trivial caused her to threaten my visitation.
This is what I'm asking, should I just go with the CSA now because she's expecting so much?
I don't get much from my job right now I can only imagine how much she'll expect after I graduate and get a proper job!
Hi John,
I have to agree with DaveR on this one.
I would raise a case with the CMS. Advise them that you want to make sure you are paying what you should be.
They will take into account your earnings etc, and send your ex a statement of what she is "due".
Armed with that you should then be able to say "CMS say I need to pay you £X, but I will pay you £Y (if you wish to pay more than CMS suggest)"
under no circumstances allow yourself to be bullied with "no payment, no contact" tactics... this leaves you open to an endless assault of bullying for your ex to get what she wants.
For what it's worth, i know where you're coming from (I've been there myself) but you're being more than fair, and giving in just leaves you wide open for the next time she wants more money from you.
*as a secondary point regarding contact and the cost of travel, for regular contact you can put forward an adjustment request to CMS which may mean they disregard some of those costs from the CMS claim also - however this depends on distance, time, cost etc.*
Hi John,
I have to agree with DaveR on this one.
I would raise a case with the CMS. Advise them that you want to make sure you are paying what you should be.
They will take into account your earnings etc, and send your ex a statement of what she is "due".Armed with that you should then be able to say "CMS say I need to pay you £X, but I will pay you £Y (if you wish to pay more than CMS suggest)"
under no circumstances allow yourself to be bullied with "no payment, no contact" tactics... this leaves you open to an endless assault of bullying for your ex to get what she wants.
For what it's worth, i know where you're coming from (I've been there myself) but you're being more than fair, and giving in just leaves you wide open for the next time she wants more money from you.
*as a secondary point regarding contact and the cost of travel, for regular contact you can put forward an adjustment request to CMS which may mean they disregard some of those costs from the CMS claim also - however this depends on distance, time, cost etc.*
Thanks Badgerdom, I'm pretty sure that's what I am going to do now.
I contacted the CMS today and they told me that child maintenance payments and child contact are two completely separate things, even though that's not the way my ex is going to see it.
I've already given in to her demands a few times, and I do need to stop the cycle and I think it's about time I put my foot down and make her realise she can't just take take take.
Do you mind telling me how you handled the situation of being threatened with not seeing your child and how you overcame this?
Hi John_O
Thank you for your post. With a family-based arrangement there are no strict rules or formulas to follow when calculating child maintenance, as they are not legally enforceable. Family-based arrangements can include whatever both parents agree on as they are flexible to suit the circumstances of both parents and their child.
You will find information and support on the Child Maintenance Options website at http://www.cmoptions.org, which may help you and your partner with your agreement between yourselves.
You will find the Talking about Money Guide and The Discussion Guide which are full of information about how you and your ex-partner can plan your conversation and indicates the cost of raising children.
There are various others factors that the Child Maintenance Service take into consideration when calculating maintenance payments. For further information on how maintenance is calculated via the Child Maintenance Service you can visit, https://www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out/how-the-child-maintenance-service-works-out-child-maintenance.
For more information on the different ways to set up child maintenance, you can visit the Child Maintenance Options website. They also have a sorting out separation web-app that you may find useful. It offers help and support to separating and separated families. The link is: www.dad.info/divorce-and-separation/sorting-out-separation.
Regards
William
Welcome to the DAD.info forum.
We don’t like to set ‘rules’, but to make sure that you and the other dads are kept safe, we have some requests. When engaging with the forum, please be aware of the following:
- The forum is not moderated 24 hours per day.
- Many of the moderators do so on a voluntary basis. Whilst they may be able to provide some guidance, advice or support, they may not be able to deal with specifics.
- We are not an emergency crisis service so if you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call emergency services.
- If you are concerned about the safety of a child, please click here to find the support you can get for them (link to new page)
- If you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123. They are open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.
We hope you find this forum a supportive environment and thank you for joining us.