[Solved] Shared custody 50/50

Hi there,

If an amount is calculated by the CSA then that is all your are liable for, any extra above the amount that is calculated is discretionary.

If you check out the sticky at the top of this section called " how does the CSA calculate payments" you will find links to two CSA factsheets, the second one is the most current and it will go into a more detail about payments, how they are calculated and any reductions you as the paying parent might be entitled to.

Yep, I agree - if you start paying through the CSA (and I'd advise you to do so), then stop paying everything else unless you wish to pay for anything in particular.

i would ask your ex(if you can agree to meet) if she is willing to go to mediation with you, get a formal agreement drawn up that states you have shared 50/50 residency of your child. Then your maintenance payments will be cut by a big chunk which will still allow you to pay for the nice things you do for your child like the after school clubs and clothes etc. hope this helps.

Hi tom.mk

Thanks for your post. I am William the Child Maintenance Options consultant. With you and your children’s mum having a family-based arrangement in place, it is between you both to agree who provides what for your children.

There are no rules or formulas that you have to stick to when working out a payment figure. You can include money and other things, for example your shared care agreement. You may wish to speak to your children’s mum and try to renegotiate your arrangement to suit your both. Family-based arrangements are not legally binding. However, they are quick and easy to change as your children get older and their needs change, or if either you or their mum has a change in circumstances.

To help you and your children’s mum renegotiate you arrangement we have some tools and guides available to download from our website at http://www.cmoptions.org/en/toolbox/index.asp. There is our Talking about money guide and Discussion Guide, these can help you and your children’s mum work out together how much child maintenance your children needs. We also have a family-based arrangement form. You can complete this with your children’s mum and sign your names to show your commitment to this arrangement. Although this is not a legally enforceable document, it puts the agreement on a more formal basis.

If you would like an indication of how much maintenance may be payable, based on how the Child Maintenance Service calculates maintenance. There is a calculator available on our website at http://www.cmoptions.org/en/calculator/. Some parents use the figure provided as a starting point to negotiate a family-based arrangement.

If you feel a family-based arrangement will not work for you, you still have the option of using the Governments statutory service, through the Child Maintenance Service. The parent who receives Child Benefit is classed as the receiving parent under the Child Maintenance Service.

The Child Maintenance Service takes shared care into account in different ways depending on the paying parent’s child maintenance rate. Shared care applies if the paying parent provides overnight care for at least 52 nights per year before a liability will be reduced. Shared care is then taken into account, based on the number of nights of shared care for each child. The amount of child maintenance to be paid is then reduced by up to 50 per cent plus a further £7 reduction, depending on the number of nights, as long as this is for more than 175 days or more a year.

If an application is made to the Child Maintenance Services they have two schemes Direct Pay and Collect and Pay. Direct Pay is when the Child Maintenance Service calculates maintenance and then leave you and children’s mum to decide together how your payments will be made. They will not contact you again unless either of you report a change in circumstances or if they are told that you have missed or stopped your payments.

Collect and Pay is when the Child Maintenance Service calculate and collect payments on your behalf, as some parents prefer the security and help of a third party managing their child maintenance. If an application is made with the Child Maintenance Service, your responsibility to pay will start from around the time that they contact you.

Child maintenance is a contribution towards the cost of bringing up a child and this includes not only such items as food and clothing but also it is a contribution towards the home that the child lives in and the associated costs of running that home. You would only be required to pay the amount they calculate, any extra payments would be paid at your own discretion.

If the paying parent can prove that they carry out an equal amount of day-to-day care as well as having equal shared care then the Child Maintenance Service regards neither parent to be the paying parent so their child maintenance would be set as nil even if one parent receives Child Benefit or tax credits as the child’s parent. Where there is equal day to day care, and there is no paying parent means that there cannot be a statutory case and the Child maintenance Service would not being able to process the application as there is no identifiable paying parent.

To find out more about how Child Maintenance Options can help you visit cmoptions.org or call us free on 0800 988 0988 between 8am and 8pm Monday to Friday or 9am and 4pm on Saturday.

Thanks
William

Hi

If you have exact equal shared care, the new rules under the new CMS state that you don't need to pay any money. It's written in their guide- I can point you to the page it's hidden on page 29 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/260890/how-we-work-out-child-maintenance.pdf

It's a new rule, and comes in for new cases the end of 2013. You'll need to fight to get it tho as the so called experts on the end of the phone do not seem to know what we are talking about! Spread the word.

Interesting calculation on page 29

There is nothing else that affects Stephen’s income, so we convert Stephen’s gross annual income figure of £27,000 to a weekly
amount. (We divide £27,000 by 365, and then multiply the result by 7.)

Stephen’s gross weekly income is £717.81.

Er, no it isn't - Stephen's gross weekly income is £517.81 - if they can't get their calculation correct in their example in the literature the are putting out, that doesn't exactly bode well for their service :boohoo:

Hi,

Sadly idontlikemondays is wrong, under the new scheme even if you have shard custody of the children you still have to pay!!! Totally ridiculous. They halve the amount you pay compared to someone who doesn't have their children at all.........very interesting as they say they dont treat the Dad like a cash machine. The ONLY way round this is down to who receives the child benefit. If its in your name, she has to pay you, if it is in hers you have to pay her. If you have 2 children though and claim for 1 each i think this gets round the system

Ah, just checked, and you are correct - they cut the cost by 50% and knock of £7 per child on top of that reduction.

Avoiding the CMS only works if your ex is prepared to take less than the calculated amount - otherwise it doesn't really make a difference whether you do the calculation or whether they do it for you.

idontlikemondays is right chaps! After 6 months of arguing with CMS I present the following.............

I wrote to my MP to complain about the rules relating to maintenance calculated by the CMS where equal care and custody is in place yet one parent is in receipt of child benefit the other has to pay maintenance.

The below is from a letter directly from Steve Webb MP Minister of State for Work and Pensions to me:

"However, if and only if, care is shared equally (this is a different test form the number of nights' test), neither parent will have a maintenance liability. An assumption that the parent receiving Child Benefit is the main carer will continue to be applied, but if that is not the case the other parent can bring evidence to rebut the assumption."

I spoke to CMS this week to let them know about this and the source of my information, they have not offered me this nugget of information once in six months and my numerous assertions about shared care and the unfairness of it. They have looked into my case again and admitted I am right and they have been wrong. I have provided said rebuttal evidence and have been told that I no longer have a maintenance liability and to stop all payments with immediate effect!

DONT GIVE IN IF YOU REALLY HAVE 50% IT IS POSSIBLE - I HAVE WON!

CMS is not aware of the correct legislation posted in my previous comment - what I want to know is who will pay me back the ££££'s I have incorrectly parted with thus far. I shall be speaking to my solicitors on how I can get the money back. As far as I am concerned CMS in my case are guilty of gross negligence and I shall be chasing them for the money. I will post back when I have more info!

Could I ask what rebuttal evidence you used...this might help others

Hi.

Short story is being able to prove 50/50 with things like the address your child is registered at the GP, school, any formal custody agreements, clothing, activities, childminders invoices etc. In my case I have my child one week on and one week off which helps no end. Quote the legislation above as my case manager had no idea it existed and had to go away and research it. Quote Steve Webb above as they will listen

Thanks, I'm sure some of our members will find this useful.

I am just starting out down this course nad it has been bugging me as I'm paying maintenance and yet still buying the lions share of clothes and uniforms and shoes on top of that.

Very interesting.

I am just starting out down this course nad it has been bugging me as I'm paying maintenance and yet still buying the lions share of clothes and uniforms and shoes on top of that.

Very interesting.

just seen this guy has started a petition - think it ends tonight so why not have a look and sign

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/66145

Only got 5 signatures - I wonder if he can re-submit the petition and publicise it on here - what he is suggesting is very do-able.

Mute point as all CSA cases should have moved to cms and therefore my info above applies to cms if you get to speak to anyone who knows anything!

No, the CSA cases are being moved to CMS over the next 3 years - what this petition is doing is requesting that they get moved as a priority so the new rules are applied immediately,

Ahh OK sorry was under the impression it was sooner. I have only had contact with cms. Will sign petition

No probs, but I have posed on another thread whether it can be started again since it's just about out of time, as I'm sure once a lot of dads on here know about it, there will be a lot more signatures

Hats off to Vindicated.

I know of people who will find that info helpful

You are welcome Mac45....

On another subject I have recently been looking into and info I have discovered but didn't actually need to test the theory......

We all know the "flag" for maintenance payments is with HMRC and who is receiving child benefits (The primary care giver). Hopefully ACTD and Chewbazza - this may go some way with the CSA issues although I am not sure but it can do with the CMS in principle.

Basically only one person can be in receipt of child benefit PAYMENTS, HOWEVER that does not mean that a second person cannot apply for it. It sounds like in our cases dads can send in an application to claim CB for their children, the outcome is that HRMC's computers melt down due to the rule of a single CB recipient and stop payments immediately. This apparently forces a human review, now I never wanted the CB payments, but you can apply for CB -"The HMRC Flag", only one person can get the £20/week etc but you can be marked as in receipt of CB even if not getting the actual cash and if both parents are in receipt of CB then in theory CMS would loose interest.........

Before I got where I got to with the CMS last week I had downloaded the form for CB, filled it out, put a copy of the birth certificate and the form in an envelope and sat on it whilst waiting for CMS.

I would be very interested to know if this trick works......

That is quite interesting - I suspect they may close the loophole eventually, but would be interested to see how you get on 🙂

This is really of interest to me and my situation.
For 4 years I have had exact shared care of my daughter which I have been paying CSA money to her mom whilst still doing everything at my house when she is with me. Two sets of everything!

I also pay for all school activities and anything she does extra. Whilst her mom refuses and uses the money for herself!!!

With the news of new CMS I got in contact with them to find out about my situation. They confirmed that under the rules since October 2012 (CSA) and the new CMS ruling I would not have to pay my ex anything.

How can this be fair? Just because my case is from the CSA 2003 rules? Is there any other system where the rules and regulations don't override the old ones???!

I would be interested to hear your opinions and advice.

depends on how many children you have, they are still migrating the cases in some situation from CSA to CMS. ONce the case is migrated it will all chnage hopefully!

I have one child with my ex.

I have spoken to CSA who said that cases will be transferred by 2017. They have no idea of when cases will be transferred and in my case it would then not raise a case with CMS because of the 50/50 care.

It just seems insane??!

In the meantime my ex is still getting me to pay for more and more things!

We had exactly this problem. Would be nil assessment by CMS rules as equal shared care but stuck on CSA rules until they decided to change the case over which could be as late as 2017! They should have made shared care cases a priority!

Do you have any other children with your current partner?

Good news for you all ! ! !

I have two kids to my ex and exactly equal 50 / 50 shared care. I fought the CSA for 2 years to be moved to the 2012 rules and even took them to court.

What you need to know is..
If your claiming for a child on the CSAs 2003 rules then cancel your case. (I claimed for one of my kids and my ex claims for the other) Then wait 13 weeks..... That's the hard part.

After 13 weeks you can be assessed by the 2012 CMS - this triggers a loophole where your ex's claim automatically stops and she also has to be re-assessed on the new 2012 rules through the CMS - resulting in each parent paying nothing! JOB DONE! 🙂

Who gets child benefit means nothing - its a way of the CSA getting a easy decision. Believe me ive been through it all!

Good luck - fight the good fight and love your kids! 🙂

I think you are one of the rare cases where you are both claiming CSA - the problem many have is that the PWC is the one who opened the case (and so has no incentive to close it), so the NRP isn't able to close it.

Having said that, it's very useful information anyway for anyone else who is able to close the their case, certainly until all cases have eventually been moved.

if you have 50/50 care why should you pay for the 50% she has the kids? and child allowance should be made available to dad's that have that 50%! why are we discriminated against in this day and age a different gender would never accept this so why should we blokes. A bill in par lament is on the way it jest needs a motion to carry 32 votes in total!!!only 16 so far and all men!!! no conservatives by the way so might be a good call to go and see your local MP to se if she or him needs your vote!! ukip have a look at this and make a stand and a name for your self's!!!!

Hi

Just to add to the body of knowledge above, I recently called the CMS about the 50/50. At first their response was a definite - does not work like that.
They explained that 50/50 care was not possible as there are an odd number of days in the year, and the odd night would always go to the person holding child benefit. Clearly a silly argument. As other responders to the thread have noted, the 50/50 exception is in writing in a brochure. When I pressed the point it seems that there is an exception but it depends on the case worker's interpretation of the facts as to whether it is granted. The case worker will look at elements such as addresses where the child is registered for school etc...
Take aways for this - 1) Insist, 2) do not believe the person who answers the calls, they are not case workers and are clearly capable of giving out incorrect advice whilst believing in it absolutely themselves. 3) Do not permit your ex to dictate on addresses for opticians etc

Bonus points - and possibly off thread (mod, please move this if appropriate)
When it comes to child benefit and having two kids - then apply for child benefit. I have been through this and found when the aggregate share of care is greater then 42% on both sides then the policy at the CB is to award shared child benefit - that is CB for one child is paid to each parent. Also, they advised me that when an application for CB is contested, then they disregard anything the person without CB says that does not agree with what the other person says. Therefore, try and get in writing / email, the other party to state what the situation is. It will support your application. Hope this helps.

Hi

I hoping someone might be able to help me here.

[Background]
I am one of those lucky dads who since legal separation stayed in the family home until agreement was reached. During this period we implemented a shard care situation. That being 5-5-2-2 so each of us gets our children for 2 of the same nights each week then every other Friday including the weekends. This enables us both to work a regular period each week. My employer has also given me term time working meaning I get the children during school holidays. I have two children of 6 and 10 years old. The youngest has learning difficulties. Early on my ex transferred the child benefit to go solely into her own account (it was going into our joint account). Midway during the divorce my ex gave up her full time job to work part time 1.5 hours a day.

[The question]
Given we have 50:50 shared day to day care. We both pay for clothes, uniforms, expenses for trip and school meals.
Is it possible for me to get the child benefit for one of my children so that both my ex and I are on an equal footing regarding benefits?
My ex has been quite adamant that I'm not entitled and it would put her on the street if she had to give up Child Benefit, Child Tax Credits, Housing Allowance, DLA, Carers allowance etc. I've said to her that as things stand, I'd be fine letting her keep the Child Tax Credits, DLA etc but merely felt it was the right thing to do and that it would allow me access to such benefits should I be made redundant. She was not happy about this and is seeking legal advice.

Has anyone any thoughts/advice on this? Are there any precedence set for this?

Hi.

Short story is being able to prove 50/50 with things like the address your child is registered at the GP, school, any formal custody agreements, clothing, activities, childminders invoices etc. In my case I have my child one week on and one week off which helps no end. Quote the legislation above as my case manager had no idea it existed and had to go away and research it. Quote Steve Webb above as they will listen

Well done for highlighting this very important point. However, I still remain unsure of how you managed to gather the evidence especially with the school and GP.

Hi Chris.taylor

If you both claim the benefits for one child each then I don't see how she would be out of pocket! If she kept the CB for your disabled child she would also get the carers allowance, so the lions share of the benefits.

If I were you I would claim CB for one of the children and see where it goes. As you have 50/50 care then the CMS shouldn't be involved.

Good luck

There is a positive advantage to you both claiming child benefit for one child each. The benefit rates are currently £20.70 for the first child, and £13.70 for each subsequent child, so you ex is currently getting £34.40 per week.

If you claim for one child each, you'll both get £20.70, so an extra £7 per week. It's perfectly legal to do this.

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit/what-youll-get

I am at the start of a divorce process, but have verbally agreed with the other half that we will have an equal number of nights in every 2 weeks with the kids and will split all costs down the middle. We have 2 kids. what do I need to do to position myself right from the start with regards a 50/50 split to ensure I minimise any claims she wants to make against me for maintenance etc.

My salary means I am not in a position to claim any tax credits etc, but she should qualify, and I was going allow her to claim the child benefit for both kids and all tax credits that she can, but if I do that with the child benefit, does that adversely affect my argument for 50/50 costs and no maintenance if she then tries to claim?

Still waiting to see a solicitor to see how it will all pan out, so just after some initial guidance as she is trying to negotiate everything up front.

Thanks

R

Hello Rizzy123

It is good to hear that you and the other parent have come to a family-based arrangement. With you having a family-based arrangement in place you and the other parent may wish to discuss and negotiate including shared care into this. Although, family-based arrangements are not legally enforceable and there are no strict rules or formulas to stick to when calculating child maintenance. Therefore parents can decide the terms of their agreement to suit their current circumstances.

The Child Maintenance Options website has a useful tools and guides section that you and the other parent may find helpful when trying to negotiate your family-based arrangement. You may find the Family-based Arrangement Form helpful when negotiating your family-based arrangement. Although this is not a legally enforceable document, it puts the agreement on a more formal basis. You can complete it together with the other parent and sign your names to show your commitment to this arrangement. This can be found at http://www.cmoptions.org.

The Child Maintenance Service takes shared care into account in different ways depending on the paying parent’s child maintenance rate. Shared care applies if the paying parent provides overnight care for at least 52 nights per year before a liability will be reduced. This is based on the agreement with the receiving parent and or evidence. Shared care is usually determined over a twelve month basis, but shorter periods can be considered in appropriate cases.

The paying parent’s weekly amount of child maintenance is divided between the number of children that qualify for child maintenance.

Shared care is then taken into account, based on the number of nights of shared care for each child. The amount of child maintenance to be paid is then reduced by up to 50 per cent plus a further £7 reduction, depending on the number of nights, as long as this is for more than 175 days or more a year.

The reductions for Basic and Basic plus rates are:
1 night per week = amount reduced by 1/7
2 nights per week = amount reduced by 2/7
3 nights per week = amount reduced by 3/7
175 nights or more = amount reduced by half and then minus a further £7.00 per child

A paying parent will usually have to pay at least £7 a week in child maintenance after shared care has been taken into account. However, if their child maintenance is set at Flat rate because the paying parent receives an income-related benefit, allowance or entitlement, then shared care for 52 nights or more a year will reduce child maintenance to £0 for that child. The paying parent also does not have to pay child maintenance for any other qualifying children who live in the same household as that child with shared care.

If child maintenance is set at Flat rate because the paying parent’s income is £100 a week or less, the Child Maintenance Service does not take shared care into account at all. This means the amount of child maintenance will not change.

This is only based on the number of nights a child stays with the paying parent and assumes that the receiving parent still carries out most of the day-to-day care. If the paying parent can prove that they carry out an equal amount of day-to-day care as well as having equal shared care then the Child Maintenance Service regards neither parent to be the paying parent so their child maintenance would be set as nil – even if one parent receives child benefits or tax credits as the child’s parent. Where there is equal day to day care, and there is no paying parent means that there cannot be a statutory case and the Child maintenance Service would not being able to process the application as there is no identifiable paying parent.

If a paying parent has more than one qualifying child and does not provide the same amount of care for all the qualifying children, liability will be worked out by adding a reduction for each child and dividing the result by the total number of qualifying children.

The following link provides further information on how the Child Maintenance Service calculates child maintenance that you may find helpful, https://www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out/how-the-child-maintenance-service-works-out-child-maintenance.

For more information on all the different ways to set up child maintenance and for a more personalised service, you can visit the Child Maintenance Options website.

The DWP have a sorting out separation web-app that you may find useful. It offers help and support to separating and separated families. The link is: www.dad.info/divorce-and-separation/sorting-out-separation.

Regards

William

Thanks William,

My current situation is that I work from home, she works away. If I have the kids 7 nights in every 14 and on the 7 nights that I dont have them I still do their breakfast, dress them, take them to school, pick them up from school, have them with me all day when they are sick, and through hols when she is working and usually provide the evening meal,with her then picking them up from me each evening that she has them, but the child benefit for both is paid to her, does this mean that maintenance would still be applicable??The costs for the day to day life of the children sits more on me than on her.

I am trying to understand my position between pushing for full custody (I see my self as the main carer) but doing this would upset the kids even further vs a completely shared custody position. if we have completely 50 / 50 split (time wise) with the kids but she continues to get the child benefits does this put me in a disadvantageous position with regards her claiming child maintenance even though I have the majority of the time with them.....

Also (and I hope to never be in this position), if I was to find myself unemployed in the future, and the child benefit was going to her for both children, where would I sit with regards claiming any relevant benefits etc....

Thanks

Thanks William,

My current situation is that I work from home, she works away. If I have the kids 7 nights in every 14 and on the 7 nights that I dont have them I still do their breakfast, dress them, take them to school, pick them up from school, have them with me all day when they are sick, and through hols when she is working and usually provide the evening meal,with her then picking them up from me each evening that she has them, but the child benefit for both is paid to her, does this mean that maintenance would still be applicable??The costs for the day to day life of the children sits more on me than on her.

I am trying to understand my position between pushing for full custody (I see my self as the main carer) but doing this would upset the kids even further vs a completely shared custody position. if we have completely 50 / 50 split (time wise) with the kids but she continues to get the child benefits does this put me in a disadvantageous position with regards her claiming child maintenance even though I have the majority of the time with them.....

Also (and I hope to never be in this position), if I was to find myself unemployed in the future, and the child benefit was going to her for both children, where would I sit with regards claiming any relevant benefits etc....

Thanks

probably unhelpful but when I suggested becoming the main carer whilst she worked I was told not to be silly and that she relied on my CMS payments....she doesnt

Hello Rizzy123

As you have a family-based arrangement in place, there are no set rules to follow, the arrangement can be anything that you both agree to.

Legally speaking, the Child Maintenance Service would usually class the parent in receipt of Child Benefit as the main carer. However, if 50/50 shared care is proven, this makes it impossible to distinguish a main carer and in those situations, no maintenance case could be put in place.

With regards to any benefits, again it is the main carer who receives any of the benefits. Either of the parents can apply for the benefits. If the main carer is disputed, a decision on who gets the benefit can sometimes be decided by tribunal.

Regards

William

so I have been to see my solicitor and he thinks I am in a strong position to be classified as the main carer. I have agreed verbally with the missus that the kids will be split 50/50 in terms of nights, but I will be also having them every day monday to Fri to do the school runs etc, and will have them through the days for the majority of the school hols when they are ill etc.

He has also told me that no maintenance is payable.

He has recommended mediation as my wife was unwilling to have an open discussions about anything else other than the 50/50 and neither of us can afford for this to get nasty/prolonged.

now that it is loosely resolved with regards the kids, I am now trying to work through different financial solutions. If I am classified as the main carer, but due to 50/50 we split the child benefit 50/50, would she still be able to claim all other tax credits etc for both children?? We have never been in a position to claim anything before (or have never really looked if we could, so this is a new field for both of us). allowing her to get the maximum benefits possible will be critical for the next couple of years. her earning are currently a lot less than mine, but she has the potential to earn considerably more following the completion of all her legal training (to be a full solicitor!!).

any idea if there is a threshold in salary where child benefit is stopped/reduced??

any help guidance on how the benefits might work would be appreciated.

Rizzy123....

TAKE NOTHING CMS tells you to be factually correct in the first instance, I had a [censored] of a time with them, as they are new they dont know their own rules, even though these are less draconian than the CSA and are supposedly geared up to be fair to both sides. In my experience its still not the case. Ask your questions several times to several different people in the CMS. As of only a few months back, their internal training, policy knowledge and legislation knowledge was terrible.

Also don't for a minute think that as you have a family based agreement set up you are safe. I had one of these, drawn up by my solicitor and signed and witnessed by my ex. We agreed 50/50 when it was all nice and naively I agreed to pay her generous maintenance. After some time passed she decided she thought she could get more out of me. The CMS sided with her, you can call me negative but its not unusual for the other party to only tell the CMS what is convenient, not necessarily lies, just not the whole truth.

For 6 months I disputed the CMS ruling on maintenance, I paid it as it was easier but every time I spoke to them on the phone I made my point clear that I disagreed. Eventually i wrote to my local MP who wrote to the minister of state for the DWP. He was kind enough to give me the correct legislation that I then had to take to the CMS for them to finally back down. It then took another 6 months of chasing, threatening to sue the CMS for me to be given back the money they incorrectly made me pay. I cannot stress enough, question everything, log everything, double check everything.

Basically if true 50/50 can be proved then no maintenance at all should be paid by you, furthermore it actually sounds like with the school runs etc you do more, the primary care giver. Now this is where it gets contentious. CMS by default consider the primary care giver to be the person in receipt of CB.

If you have 2 kids the ideal solution is for you to each collect CB for one child each thus wiping out the primary care giver argument.

You can only claim working tax credits if you are the PCG, and you can only be that in the eyes of the law/CMS/HMRC if you are the CB benefactor

Although I won not having to pay maintenance on 50/50 it took a long time, I earn a lot more than my ex, but that's not the point with 50/50. Even after winning the 50/50 battle I still could not claim CB or WTC.

As it subsequently transpired I eventually won soul custody from my ex in court, open the doors to then trying to get CB and WTC, the same burden of proof in both cases but with 2 different HMRC departments. Only 1 person can claim CB, so although I was soul and PCG It took we another 6 months battling HMRC to get CB. The reason I mention this, is to point out how useless they are, I then raised a maintenance claim against my ex but surprise, surprise as the was an existing case file on the kids it took another 6 months to finally get maintenance, Everytime I spoke to CMS they always assumed as I am a man I should be paying not recieving, until I pointed out they were reading the claim the wrong way. Their computer system actually had to be patched for my beneifit in order for them to close the old case and open a new case, all in another 6 months.

Everything is possible but it an uphill battle, fortunately you are only going 50/50, my case ended up vastly different. But as I said above, ask every question 2-3 times to different people in CMS, dont take anything for granted they tell you, question everything!

I meant to point out (I know you are trying to be nice and allow her to get maximum benefits) If you do this you will never be a PGC in law and your ex only has to disagree with CMS on who is the PGC and that's it. To prove PGC either she has to confirm you are with CMS or you need to show who buys clothes, pays for afterschool activities, address the kids are registered with dentists/doctors etc....

Feel free to msg me directly, I feel your pain and dont think for a minute anyone is an expert in this area and as for cmsoptions! pah.

And good luck

thanks, you have captured some of my concerns, I have been advised that I am in a position to be classified the primary carer, but if I concede this to allow her to claim the benefits then I believe that this puts me in a negative position with any decisions that she makes with regards the kids in the future, but if I take the Child Benefit, and she is unable to claim the tax allowances then there is no way she will be able to afford her half of the 50/50 and the kids will suffer because of it.

I've read more than one case where any family arrangement even signed sealed and stamped formally, quickly becomes null and void if in the future she decides to use the fact that she is claiming the CB against me for maintenance or to strengthen her position as the primary carer to move the kids away.

My job currently allows me to work from home almost permanently, and I can keep this in place for a few more years at least until the kids are well established in the local comprehensive school, but in keeping my current job to suit the kids (and to fit in with her working practices where she drops the kids off with me at 7am and picks them up from me at 6pm), I am definitely turning down the opportunities of career progression and some quite sizeable hikes in Pay, which I am happy to do for as long as I can see the kids pretty much daily.

My concern here is if I concede these opportunities for myself now for the benefit of the kids stability and to allow her to carry on working, and give her the CB to allow her to claim all the tax allowances, where do I stand in a year or 3 she decides to change her mind.....

I certainly think you are putting yourself in a weaker position - at the least, I would say that you come to an agreement where each of you claims child benefit for one child (perfectly legal) which actually means you get £7 per week extra in benefit, which you could then give to your ex to make up for some of the child tax credits she might lose.

one of the biggest problems.....you cant normally force her to give up CB for either child if she is already claiming it which is normally the case the woman claims it just through the fact they usually apply when on maternity leave so you need to have a nice chat about it. The other option is to put a claim for CB in to HMRC, they will require the same burden of proof for PCG as CMS etc.

In my case I put a claim in, the computer spins out as 2 people cant claim for CB, this then causes a human review. (Be aware it stops all CB payments immediately until the issue is resolved). At this point you argue the case with your facts to HMRC and they decide for or against you. If you do manage to win this battle it makes the CMS won alot easier.......

Thanks Vindicated, is there any guidance I can follow to making contact with HMRC (web link etc) ? The more I can prepare in advance for discussions with her and between solicitors the better.

In my experience, CB is the key. Win on that and the rest follows.
Start to call your address the ' main address', register your address with doctors etc...keep a log of all the stuff that will be asked about.
Bear in mind that when you claim the CB, the first thing that they will do is ask the same questions of mum. If the answers disagree then they will favour the status quo. So, have lots of information so that you are much more credible....
Note that there is no appeal against their decisions, but you can reapply with new information, or after things have changed.
If there are two or more kids then they will likely award each parent CB for one child.

Hi all and looking for a bit of advice which I think relates to this thread.

I have been separated from my wife for 10 years and have two children, boy 14 and girl 16. I have paid maintenance from day one; I have the kids every other weekend and one day in the week and paid for pretty much everything else too as in clothes, phones, computers and anything else.

My wife who lives in a substantial house, new car and with her partner mainly caters for the roof over their heads and food when they are there.

Her and her partner are only prepered to work a certain amount of hours per week or whe will loose her benifits and she also gets child maintenace for another child she has with somebody else.

I have a very good job so I am lucky, the complication comes when my daughter wants to come and live with me full time so that would be 1 child with me and one with her at the moment.

Am I still liable for maintenance, that’s my question?

Any advice would be much appreciated

Regards

David

Hi there

Under these circumstances, one child each doesn't rule out CM. Each parent would make a separate claim for the child that lives with them and the amount each parent pays is dependent on the non resident parents income. If they only work minimum hours and you have a well paid job, you would probably end up paying more. You are of course entitled to Child Benefit and any tax benefits that apply.

If you have paid maintenance through the CSA, all changes must be reported, then they should recalculate the amount you pay for just one child. It would be up to you to open a new claim for the child living with you.

If you have an informal arrangement between the two of you then you are in a position to renegotiate terms and you could then hope to agree that having a child each cancels out any maintenance payments.

Best of luck

My daughter lives with me - following her mother throwing her out at 13, my other two live with her (for now - although my son is not keen). I pay maintenance for the two that live with her on average 4.5 days per week plus 50% of clubs / School activities, she pays nothing to me for her daughter - although she does have her 3 days every 2 weeks. She has always claimed CB (and also Working Tax Credits based on 3 kids).

There is no financial reason for me claiming CB as I earn considerably over the threshold and therefore would have to pay it back - but the rules seem out of touch when CB claims are used to determine residency - my daughter is certainly not resident with her mother. I am not even sure if she should legitimately be claiming CB or WTC based on her daughter that is not resident. Possibly someone could comment on my situation.

This is an issue now as the impending divorce (after 6 years apart) is forcing me to face some hard truths about custody, payments and potentially my wife's 'right' to the family house. I would much rather go to a situation of shared custody with at least a 50/50 arrangement - overall as an average across all 3 they are currently with me 48% of the time. This is less of a financial issue and more about my role as a parent- a role I feel I perform considerably better than their mother,

Incidentally, generally I feel the rules on maintenance for 50/50 arrangements would be better addresses by assessing maintenance costs for both parents at 50% so that there is a net payment from the higher earner to the lower earner.

This 50/50 child maintenance is a load of tosh.
I will pays my fees until the day I die, but.....
If I have my lad for 50% of the time why do I have to pay her a penny?
Why isn't the arguement the other way around? Why can't I claim against her? How's about she give me some money?
When he is in her house, SHE will pay for food, clothing and household bills. When my lad is with me "I" will pay the same. Somebody explain to me please in the interest of fairness WHY I have to pay maintenance while having my boy HALF they time.
I have spoke with an advisor from the child maintenance dept and she herself could not understand exactly why th

There have been a few posts about this recently & one dad said the CMS had told him it was because the mother was in receipt of the Child Benefit.

I'm sorry I can't be of much help. The families I know with 50/50 don't pay any maintenance to each other.

Hopefully someone will be along with further info.

Hello Farmer

When the Child Maintenance Service calculate payments, the overnight stays that the children have with the paying parent is taken into account. 1/7 is reduced from the total amount for every night the paying parent has on average.

When there is 50/50 shared care, which means daytime care as well as overnight, the maintenance is usually zero.

You can view detailed information about how they calculate maintenance here, https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/325219/how-we-work-out-child-maintenance.pdf

If you require any information about the alternative ways to set up a maintenance arrangement, you can contact Child Maintenance Options directly, http://www.cmoptions.org

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) have a website, ‘Sorting out separation’. It aims to make it much easier for separating and separated parents (and childless couples) to find the support they need, when and where they need it, and encourages them to collaborate on a range of issues. The link is https://www.sortingoutseparation.org.uk/

Regards

William