[Solved] Just discovered I have a 10 year old child!

Firstly if you live outside Europe then the CSA/CMA can't force you to pay maintenance.

I guess you are not listed on the birth certificate as the dad, so you don't have any rights or parental resposibility if the child is only 10yrs old.

Hi there,

Has the woman said why she has decided to contact you after all this time? Do you know what she wants?

I think the first thing you should ask for is a DNA test just to confirm paternity, I don't think this would be an unreasonable request considering the length of time that has passed.

It's hardly surprising that your emotions are all over the place. You both need time to get a handle on this and decide how to go forward.

As you live abroad it will be extremely difficult for you to establish a relationship with the child, but depending on the country you could well be expected to make financial provision for him. Many countries do have reciprocal agreements with the UK with regard to child support, just googling it will answer this question.

My advice would be to take your time and think seriously what you would like to happen in the future. Your wife's involvement is paramount for you and any decisions you make must be made together. Good luck

Thank you to both people who have replied. I have replied to her request to contact but using a new e-mail account with no details attached.

Her reply is very frank and there is no mention of support. I accept that this doesn't get us out of jail right now but we are in a useful position in that we are in Thailand right now and I can prove that I have had no significant income for the past 8 years (long story but I have completed tax returns on me working as a sole trader that show me earning £700-900 per year (totally accurate) in the UK. There is plenty of documented evidence showing me as being unable to work whilst living in Thailand and us existing on my wife's wage.

At the moment she is looking to give the boy (please understand I am not void of emotion....just treading carefully right now) an understanding of who I am. All her communication seems very acceptable and she seems incredibly nervous too.

For now I intend to keep everything running through this new e-mail address and I will set up a new Skype account too. My name is not on any official documentation at my address in Thailand so there is no official way to find me. I will continue to provide any useful information into this forum so that people can help me understand my legal options.

My wife and I have spoken and she is keen for me to push this forward and see what comes. I think she is being very strong for me so my goal right now is to establish enough information to share this with our families (i.e. my Mother, Father, Sister and her parents) so that she can get some support from outside our immediate family unit. I am constantly asking her how she feels and letting her speak. Ironically she is doing the same so we both don't know when it is our turn, but I guess that is healthy.

In positive moments we are determined to make this work to make our families stronger but we will always look to protect ourselves from being "blindsided". We will be happy to contribute and support as best we can on a private basis but recognise that the CSA would destroy us as it has so many people before. We have a choice as it stands and we need to be VERY careful of our next move.

Keep them coming and tremendous thanks to all on here. A lifeline right now.

Firstly if you live outside Europe then the CSA/CMA can't force you to pay maintenance.

I guess you are not listed on the birth certificate as the dad, so you don't have any rights or parental resposibility if the child is only 10yrs old.

I think you are referring to the change in the law regarding parental responsibility. He was born in 2002 so I believe that I do have these rights/responsibilities. However I am unclear, right now, of whether that is a good thing or not.

Hi there,

Has the woman said why she has decided to contact you after all this time? Do you know what she wants?

I think the first thing you should ask for is a DNA test just to confirm paternity, I don't think this would be an unreasonable request considering the length of time that has passed.

It's hardly surprising that your emotions are all over the place. You both need time to get a handle on this and decide how to go forward.

As you live abroad it will be extremely difficult for you to establish a relationship with the child, but depending on the country you could well be expected to make financial provision for him. Many countries do have reciprocal agreements with the UK with regard to child support, just googling it will answer this question.

My advice would be to take your time and think seriously what you would like to happen in the future. Your wife's involvement is paramount for you and any decisions you make must be made together. Good luck

Just a quick point. I have seen a photo of the boy and myself and my wife are in no doubt who the father is. Chip off the old block....just makes it harder to deal with right now.

... As he was born before December 2003 and you were not married to the mother them you do not have Parental Responsibility. You can apply for this either through court, or if the mother is agreeable, by signing a ParentalResponsibility agreement. However as you live abroad I don't think you would be able to move on this as you would need to attend in person.

As far as the CSA is concerned, your income is not sufficient to be liable for child support, it might be useful to check if there is a reciprocal agreement in place with Thailand for child support, just so you know where you stand. They wouldn't take your wife's income into account I'm sure.

Does the mother give any indication of why she has had a change of heart? From the dates you give the child is now at least 11 years old, there must have been something that triggered her contacting you!

I can understand your trepidation, it's good that you are supported by your wife, I'm sure together you will be able to navigate a way forward that is right for you all. Good luck.

... As he was born before December 2003 and you were not married to the mother them you do not have Parental Responsibility. You can apply for this either through court, or if the mother is agreeable, by signing a ParentalResponsibility agreement. However as you live abroad I don't think you would be able to move on this as you would need to attend in person.

As far as the CSA is concerned, your income is not sufficient to be liable for child support, it might be useful to check if there is a reciprocal agreement in place with Thailand for child support, just so you know where you stand. They wouldn't take your wife's income into account I'm sure.

Does the mother give any indication of why she has had a change of heart? From the dates you give the child is now at least 11 years old, there must have been something that triggered her contacting you!

I can understand your trepidation, it's good that you are supported by your wife, I'm sure together you will be able to navigate a way forward that is right for you all. Good luck.

Nanny knows best. I'll vouch for that.

All very confusing right now. I am communicating with the mother (and now the boy) through the e-mail account that I set up for just this. It is allowing us to compartmentalise this a touch right now. We are full of this situation and working our way towards telling close friends and family. Today we will be telling our close, local, friends. This is to allow us to have some other people to talk to in preparation for telling our parents. With my parents separated and my sister living in Sydney this makes us have 4 groups to tell the same story to. This is going to be tiring but we are finding it easier the more we engage.

The boy is 11 and there really is no need for a DNA test. The photos I have seen of him are basically photos of me at that age. There is another reason that the mother has admitted to. She has a mini-stroke towards the end of last year. Add to this that she is completely deaf now (her hearing was going when we "knew" each other) and has spinal issues and he has hit puberty. All this has placed enough pressure on her to contact me.

I did start out by feeling angry with her but have adjusted that as I realise we are going to have to deal with each other over this situation and starting on the wrong foot is not going to make an incredibly difficult situation any easier. I have explained all this to her in an e-mail and she is very realistic about this.

The boy has sent me an e-mail, understandably gibberish but a start. I have had to explain that I might well not come at this as quickly as him as we have different starting positions and I have asked for him to be patient with me as I have a responsibility to my family as his Mother has a responsibility to him and her family.

Financially I don't know much about her situation. I will be getting to that point with her in due course. Right now I am trying to establish what arrangements she has for the boy in the event that something dramatic happens to her. It is not like he can just come and live with us. If something happens to her he is going to need somebody who can help him keep his environment (i.e. school, friends, etc) going. That can't be us as we live in an alien land and he doesn't know us at all. In time who knows but right now that is the wrong kind of pressure to be putting on the relationship if we want it to be fruitful.

Primarily I am concerned for my wife and my 2 year old daughter. Part of the reason we are telling our close friends tonight is that the woman is our little girl's teacher too. This will allow her to provide an understanding of behavioral changes.

Telling our families is going to be tough but I know that I can't move on without them and this has to be given a chance of becoming part of all of our lives.

What does "Parental Responsibility" mean in a legal sense?

...ah I guessed her reasons would be either medical or financial. It's sad for the child that her health is failing, I hope that there are members of her family able to support them.

It's good that you are able to adjust your feelings of anger towards her because as you say you will have to develop some kind of working relationship with her for the child's sake.

Obviously a fully managed and measured situation is the ideal, but events can sometimes overtake everything and its important to establish a support network for him where he lives....if something happens to his mother the support network needs to be able to kick in immediately. Hopefully his mother will have put things in place....

You are going to find it more difficult to form a relationship/bond with your son because of the great distance between you all. At 11 he is still a child and won't be able to rationalise his position, or yours. He may have imagined you as a knight in shining armour that will appear and make everything right. The mother should have involved you in his life before problems arose for her, I think it might be helpful to find out what her expectations are!

Having established his position as your son, he is now your family just as much as your wife and daughter, it's right that you give your existing family priority for now but that will need to change I imagine, otherwise your son may feel resentful that he is not considered as equal to your wife and daughter. Be gentle with him and try not to make him feel separate from your family unit.

At 2 your daughter shouldn't be affected by this, she is still too young and her daily life will not need to change. Children are resilient and can cope well with change as long as all their emotional needs are being met.

Parental responsibility gives you certain rights as far as being consulted about his education and health. You would also expect to be informed of his progress generally. In the event that his mother was no longer able to care for him the responsibility of care would then fall upon any other person that has PR for the child.

Again Nannyjane....thank you!

We have slowed it down a touch at the moment whilst we bring our families into the picture. It does certainly help that this is happening over a huge distance as it means I can't make any rash, emotional, decisions that I will regret later. Presently I have asked him to understand that I have a lot of life behind me and I have to make sure that all the people I need on board are understanding and able. I can see it from his point of view but I also have to remember that I have, primarily, a responsibility for my family "as is".

We told our first "outsiders" last night. We chose close friends as the woman is a work colleague of my wife and is our daughter's class teacher. This provided us with quite a lot of therapeutic talking and it certainly feels a little more under control.....as much as that is the case.

I totally agree with you that I can NOT be his knight in shining armour and I am utilising our present location as a tool to ensure the mother thinks about support for the child within his environment where he can continue at his school with his friends and in his area. If something does happen it would not be good for him to be removed from that environment and we have no way of returning quickly and being able to set up an environment that would be good for him. Nor do we, at present, have the responsibility.

You also mention the financial aspect of this. I have to assume due to the list of illnesses and the fact that the mother has been registered disabled and a single mother for the lifetime of the boy that she is receiving adequate support from the government. On a theoretical base how would the my emergence on the scene change that for her? Particularly as if we were to return to the UK right now we would be existing primarily off my wife's "miniscule" wage whilst I establish growth in my business? Would it be better for all concerned if we discuss that now before we embark on traveling into more emotional aspects? I can see that, for now, it would probably be more financially sensible for her to keep things as they are as they have a roof over their heads, food on the plate, plenty for extra-curricular activities, money for holidays abroad and to buy some nice things (he has a guitar....weird that I have played the guitar most of my life). What would your thoughts on this be?

Again "many thanks", just off to click buttons 🙂

Hi Draftvader

Thank you for your post. I am William the Child Maintenance Options consultant. I will provide you with some information about child maintenance that you may find useful.

With you living in Thailand and your son’s mother living in the UK, there are a number of ways to put a child maintenance arrangement in place.

One option that you may wish to consider is to set up a family-based arrangement with your son’s mother. Many parents choose to sort out child maintenance between themselves as it is often the quickest and most amicable way of agreeing child maintenance. There are also no strict rules to stick to.

A family-based arrangement does not need to be all about money although many parents do include regular contributions. Your arrangement can include other kinds of support, such as you directly paying for things that your son may need. Family-based arrangements are not legally-binding, however, many parents prefer them because of their flexibility and ease of which they can be reviewed (such as if you or your son’s mother’s circumstances change).

Another option for child maintenance is to set up a court order for child maintenance. However, you will need to check to see if the UK has a Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders (REMO) agreement in place with Thailand. This is an agreement set up via the British Government with other countries, to enable citizens to receive maintenance if a parent lives abroad. For more information about child maintenance when parents live abroad, you may wish to view the UK Government website Gov.uk at https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-if-one-parent-lives-abroad/reciprocal-enforcement-of-maintenance-orders-remos.

In general, the UK statutory child maintenance service can only deal with an application for child maintenance when both parents and the child live in the UK. However, there are exceptions to this when any of the following points apply to the paying parent:

- Is working abroad in the service of the crown (for example, is a Civil Servant, works within Her Majesty's Diplomatic Service or is a member of the Armed Forces).

- Works abroad for a UK based company (for example the company employs people to work outside the UK but makes payments via a UK payroll. The company also needs to be registered under the Companies Act 1985 (England, Wales and Scotland) or the Companies (Northern Ireland) Order 1986).

- Works abroad on a secondment for a prescribed body (for example, works for an NHS trust, regional health authority, primary care trust or local authority).

If any of the above exceptions apply to your circumstances, an application can be made to the Child Maintenance Service. For further information about the UK statutory child maintenance service, you may wish to visit Gov.uk at https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance.

For more information on the ways to set up child maintenance, please visit our website at http://www.cmoptions.org. Alternatively, you can call us free on 0800 988 0988 between 8am and 8pm Monday to Friday or 9am and 4pm on a Saturday.

Regards

William