[Solved] HOW DOES THE CMS VERIFY IF A CHILD IS OR IS NOT IN FULL TIME EDUCATION AFTER 16

hi, CMS can be bit useless like that. they just take mothers word for it, until you can provide real evidence. maybe you can ring hmrc/tax office and ask to check your daughters records. maybe be difficult to their data protection rules. you have absolutely no contact with your child?

here is what mojo put from other thread:

It's quite difficult to find out whether your son still attends full time education, without his mothers cooperation, you could try asking the local education authority, it I'm not sure if they have to provide that information.

Maintenance is payable up until a child is 16, or up to 20 if they remain in full time, non advanced education. Full time means anything above 12 hours a week and non advanced is up to and including A level, college and some approved apprenticeships.

https://www.dad.info/forum/child-maintenance/39741-how-to-check-if-a-child-us-in-full-time-education

Hi, I am in exactly the same situation - my daughter will be 18 in May this year. CSA claim she is in full time education but as I have no contact I cannot obtain proof of this.
The CSA takes the mothers word for it, I asked them when she turned 16 to check, and they just phoned my ex. She has a history of fraudulent behaviour so I would expect her to lie in order to continue to collect benefits and maintenance.

It is not appropriate to enter into dialogue with her, as she has previously been physically abusive to both me and my parents - the only reason I could not continue contact with my daughter was because the toxicity was dangerous.

I have never missed a payment but on principle, I do not want to be paying when I shouldn't be. I have already paid off more than £30k in fraudulent loans where my signature has been forged - I didn't inform the police as this would have a devastating effect on my daughter.

If anyone reading this can advise I would be very grateful!

I have conducted my own research by turning the tables and talking to the CSA in the capacity as the parent of the child and the child lives with me. This is the scenario. My child is coming up to 19 and lives with me. What evidence do i have to provide to the CSA that my child is (1) in further education (2) is actually "attending" further education classes (3) has breaks from further education and goes into employment. Basically I dont have to provide any evidence at all. The CSA take my word for it!!!

My question to the CSA, so what if I am lying about my child being in further education, at any point between 16 and 20?

The CSA answered "we may do a random check up that the child is in further education, other than that, we take your word for it".

So there is a MASSIVE LOOPHOLE, TOTALLY UNJUST and goes to show the CSA are on the side of the parent whom the child lived with. This is discrimination and there could be many cases where the parent is acting fraudulently to get maintenance payments when there are not entitled.

THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED!

Suggest all CSA paying parents lobby their MP to get this change and put legislation in place for a parent to prove their child is in further education and regularly attending that education.

I did ask for this question to be raised when DWP met with gingerbread (they were oversubscribed, so I wasn't able to attend), but no idea if that happened. I agree, the biggest issue with CMS is that there is absolutely no comeback on the PWC if they are found to be lying, and no checks to see if they are.

well then there's a big discrimination taking place with the CSA and the paying parent, clearly in favour of the parent where the child resides.

this should be lobbied and raised with MP's to get some kind of legislation in place for evidence that the "child" attends any further education otherwise it leaves open for fraud claims!!

Surely there has to be some kind of legislation in place for a paying parent to demand the evidence their child is in further education or not before paying up?

hi,

gingerbread group recently invited people to meet a DWP member to discuss child maintenance and ways to improve it.

this is their take on CMS. Seems to be in support of resident parent:

https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/policy-campaigns/our-campaigns/maintenance-matters/

wow, it used to cost £100 to sign up to CMS:

Cuts to child maintenance charges
2013

We lobbied the government to drop all charges introduced for parents accessing their Child Maintenance Service (CMS). We secured a reduction in the upfront fee single parents have to pay to access the service from £100 to £20. We also succeeded in cutting collection charges for single parents from seven per cent of their maintenance payments to four per cent. This reduced the financial burden for thousands of single parent families across the country. Gingerbread continues to campaign for a fairer CMS for single parent families.

I don't ever recall it being £100, so I assume they secured that reduction in advance of it actually going live.

Posted by: @Hmssweeney

Hello, I am divorced and estranged from my daughter who I have no contact with (the wishes of mother). I have been paying maintenance regularly until my daughter was 18 in June 2019. I have not been informed if my daughter has at any point leaving school been in full time education. The CMS are now asking me to prove she is not in full time education so that any further maintenance can be stopped. However their letter states they only have the word from my ex wife that my daughter is in education but not providing any specific details. I find this really strange. As I don't have any contact I am unable to prove any of this as I have no idea where they are. . Surely her mother has a responsibility to the CMS to provide the correct details about my daughter's further education. Is there anyone I can contact to find out if my daughter is registered for further education? I did hear on the grapevine my daughter left school but started a job, so so I may have been paying maintenance unnecessarily. However I recently received a letter indicating my daughter is back in full time education but they will not provide me with any details. I will pay maintenance if need be but surely I am entitled to see the proof ? Also if my daughter did start work but left to pursue education again does she have the right to claim maintenance for these interim periods? I think I may have been paying maintenance uncessarily so what rights do I have in this respect?

Posted by: @Hmssweeney

Hello, I am divorced and estranged from my daughter who I have no contact with (the wishes of mother). I have been paying maintenance regularly until my daughter was 18 in June 2019. I have not been informed if my daughter has at any point leaving school been in full time education. The CMS are now asking me to prove she is not in full time education so that any further maintenance can be stopped. However their letter states they only have the word from my ex wife that my daughter is in education but not providing any specific details. I find this really strange. As I don't have any contact I am unable to prove any of this as I have no idea where they are. . Surely her mother has a responsibility to the CMS to provide the correct details about my daughter's further education. Is there anyone I can contact to find out if my daughter is registered for further education? I did hear on the grapevine my daughter left school but started a job, so so I may have been paying maintenance unnecessarily. However I recently received a letter indicating my daughter is back in full time education but they will not provide me with any details. I will pay maintenance if need be but surely I am entitled to see the proof ? Also if my daughter did start work but left to pursue education again does she have the right to claim maintenance for these interim periods? I think I may have been paying maintenance uncessarily so what rights do I have in this respect?

Hi I am having a similar problem with the CMS at the moment, I think the short answer is they don’t verify wether a child is still in education because they don’t have to. 
They do just take the PWC’s word for it. 
2 months ago I reconnected with my estranged 17 year old son, (His mother’s choice to take him away) and during our conversation he told me that he was doing some labouring work for a local self employed builder. 
My initial response was I was happy for him, But my thoughts quickly changed to why am I still paying Maintenance for you if you’re earning  money in your own right. 
I contacted CMS with my concerns, their response was, “ We check with child benefit to see if The parent with care is still in receipt of CB If they are then Maintenance will continue” end of! 
I was told to go and check with CB and raise an enquiry with them which I subsequently did.

CMS said they will wait to hear from CB, two months have passed after CMS initially telling me it would take 4 weeks to sort out, then 6 weeks I then get a phone call after waiting 8 weeks…  saying my case will be closed automatically on the 5th of September and I didn’t have to do anything else and I can stop paying. 
I thought great my 12 year CMS/CSA nightmare is finally over.

Then last Saturday I got a phone call from a rather rude pushy woman at CMS informing me that my maintenance will continue for two more years because my son has started at college, Demanding my bank details for direct debits and threatening the usual attachment of earnings if I don’t comply, As far as I was aware he was working on my case was being closed, it now transpires That the person he was working for was infact The brother-in-law of my ex-partner, So I’m suspecting something  rather dodgy going on i.e Cash in hand payments so not showing in the books, So Of course untraceable to the authorities, CMS CB 
 Knowing my ex partners past track record for not being completely honest. I still believe I shouldn’t be paying and the case should in fact have been closed but funny how last minute there’s a rethink and all the onus is put on me.

Any help or advice regarding this will be much appreciated thanks.

hi,

if child stays in full-time education (approved by CB/HMRC), does minimum 12 hours study a week,  then child maintenance continues until their 20.

would recommend you join this group, support for paying parents: https://www.facebook.com/groups/239699060076601