[Solved] GROSS Pay

Hi there

I would ask them for a full breakdown of the alleged arrears, and I would also request that all further communication is done in writing. I would also open a formal complaint using their complaints process.

I would also recommend that you get your MP involved, taking all your paperwork with you.

All the best

Mojo

Diljeet,

Child Maintenance isn't calculated on pure gross - it is calculated on the amount you are taxed (so less pension, salary scarifice scheme deductions etc).
This tool - https://www.cmoptions.org/en/calculator/ - will calculate what you should be paying

Smudge

Also CSA was calculated as 15% of NET for 1 child - where as CMS is 12% of gross for one child.

Your concept of it not potentially not being legal because you don't ever see that money is flawed and ridiculous on many levels. Your gross earnings are your gross earnings - your exact tax status and things like pensions etc governs what your net take home is - however the gross earnings are still your money.

Many thanks for the response, I think.

I am not the cleverest, nor the most stupid of persons as indicated by your "flawed and Rediculous" comments.

Firstly, nothing to me, can explain the increase of monies from £538 to £1.107, whatever that works out in %.
The CMS information leaflet covers the % of monies taken from weekly earnings. For example 12% of the first £800 and 9% there after, using there own calculations this doesn't add up.

As for the Gross earnings being "still my money" I am at a loss at what other industry allows you to purchase anything using your Gross earnings!

Lets be honest, how can we trust anything relating to the CMS when there own headed letter shows an incorrect telephone number?
I did mention this to them and they replied, "we have known about this for some time but we cannot alter it because it is computer generated" really?

Cheers

I think you are missing the point to some extent. The CMS do indeed use gross income instead of net, but the percentage they apply is lower. This generally means that anyone earning less than about £25k per annum will pay the same or less under CMS than they did under CSA, and it's only when you get into much higher incomes that you are paying significantly more than you would under the old system. The change you mention, plus the fact that they wanted to put you onto collect and pay (and thereby the 20% extra) makes me wonder whether there are any arrears involved. If not, and their calculation is incorrect, then ask them for a breakdown of how they have calculated this, and if they aren't forthcoming, then raise a complaint or ask your MP to do so.

Ahh

Starting to get the hang of it now.

Punish those that have always been willing to pay.
Under the CSA (NET Pay) I paid £500ish
Under the CMS (GROSS Pay) I earn exactly the same and pay over £1,000.
The mother has never once complained about the monies recieved under the CSA, the only difference under the CMS is that I cannot sustain the loss of over £1,000 per month.

By the way a slight side issue, I met my current wife when her son (now legally adopted by me) was 6 months old. His biological father has always worked and stopped when the CSA caught up with him, the last letter we recieved from the CSA stated that when they finally catch up with him he is legally obliged to pay £2.70 per month. GREAT

To pay £1000 per month, with collect and pay, your gross pay should be around £100k per annum (assuming no overnight stays, and I haven't included any deduction for your adopted son). That translates to £66k net pay, and under CSA, you would have been paying £825 per month approx, so that means that CMS have a) calculated incorrectly, b) you have arrears, or c) you were underpaying with CSA because they didn't have correct income figures for you. If it's b) or c), then there's not much you can do as it's money you owe, but if it's a), then my original comment stands that you need to ask for a breakdown of the calculation and get this corrected, or go to see your MP.

Many Thanks

It just doesnt add up in my head, the CSA had all the same details as the CMS.

How can I incure arrears (3 different figures) from January 2018? This is after the CSA in December sytated I had zero arrears.

The main issues I have are.
What initially promted the change from NET to GROSS?
I know for a fact that the mother is and has been for years earning roughly the same as me, this was even through a period where I was struggling for work. the CSA/ CMS do not take this into account, they have no interest.
No matter what the percentages are and how they differ from Net to GROSS, the end result is that monies taked have rise by over 100%.

Cheers from someone that losing the will

I don't know what was behind the thinking in the change - possibly that people were finding ways to put more through their businesses or other perks that would mean they were avoiding paying maintenance if it was based on net income. For one child, it went from 15% of net under CSA to 12% of gross under CMS - generally, those figures don't vary too much after the calculation. I would ask them for their calculation to check that they do have it right, and whether they think there are arrears from before January that they have suddenly found.

Use the taxable pay figure published on your P60. The CMS calculations are not done on the absolute gross figure - it is your taxable income - so pension contributiuons and salary sacrifice deductions are taken off before the required CMS payment is calculated.
To calculate your weekly wage divide by 365 and multiple by 7
use this figure to calculate the amount you owe CMS on a weekly basis (you can reverse the above calculation to work out annual/yearly amount).
if you use the cms options website it you can also add things you will get deductions for (other children at live with you, overnights etc)

A CMS payment of £1000 a month (assuming that you are paying for one child, with one at home and having your other child to stay less than 52 nights a year) with equate to an annual salary of ~£134190
Which, after tax and 8% pension contribution, would give you a monthly income of ~£6225.90 - 15% of which is ~£934
so the wrong figure is being used somewhere....