[Solved] Does a CSA claim supercede existing arrangements?

Hi TiggerSA

Sorry to hear that you are going through financial worries of this kind.

Unfortunately, parents can still make a claim through the CMS *even when* there is a family-based agreement already in place, and *even when* all payments have been made (according to the agreement). So in this sense, yes a CMS claim does supersede any other (non-court imposed) maintenance payments based upon family-based agreements.

Although it may seem hard to swallow - when a parent makes a claim through CMS, this becomes a mandatory payment, and as such all payments to the resident parent/children of the kind you mention (allowances, saving accounts, and other extra-expenditure) become known as voluntary payments - which the CMS do not take in to account (at all) - so, it makes financial sense for non-resident parents to stop making these types of payments immediately - if you cannot afford these in addition to the CMS calculated maintenance amount.

You do not mention your husband's salary or employment situation - so it is difficult to offer any advice on the amount claimed for. Also, are the CMS claiming there are arrears? Lastly, you mentioned the eldest was 19 two years ago, so is he/she 21 now?

As you may already know, you can get a feel for how the maintenance calculation is done by using the calculator at:

http://www.cmoptions.org/en/calculator/

The other thing to add (which the calculator does not take into account) is that a non-resident parent can make a claim for a "variation based on contact costs" if these are substantial enough (over £10 per week on average). There are other variations that may apply to your situation (such as any prior debts) - and these can be found here:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/relationships/children-and-young-people/child-maintenance/child-maintenance-2012-scheme/child-maintenance-reviews-and-appeals/the-2012-child-maintenance-scheme-grounds-for-a-variation/

It would seem in your case, the only way to "appeal" a basic CMS calculation from the non-resident parents perspective, is if the amount of income they have used (usually the P60 amount from the most recent financial year) is patently incorrect (for some reason), assuming arrears have not been added incorrectly. But this is automatically provided by HMRC. Furthermore, roughly speaking, the date the CMS will "assume" maintenance payments to take place (for the amount they calculate) is from the date the case was opened - and do not back-date claims beyond this date on behalf of the resident parent.

Hope that helps

Hello TiggerSA

With your husband having a case with the Government’s statutory scheme, he would need to contact them directly to discuss any concerns he has regarding his case or payments. He will find their details on any letters they have sent him or on Gov.uk at https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance.

The Child Maintenance Service works out child maintenance using the paying parent's gross income, which is income before Income Tax and National Insurance are taken off, but after occupational or personal pension scheme contributions are taken away. In most cases this gross income figure comes from information given to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) by the paying parent, their employer or a third-party such as an accountant.

I have included a link on how the Child Maintenance Service works and how they calculate child maintenance that you may find useful, https://www.gov.uk/how-child-maintenance-is-worked-out/how-the-child-maintenance-service-works-out-child-maintenance.

For more information on all the different ways to set up child maintenance and for a more personalised service, you can visit the Child Maintenance Options website at http://www.cmoptions.org.

The DWP have a sorting out separation web-app that you may find useful. It offers help and support to separating and separated families. The link is: www.dad.info/divorce-and-separation/sorting-out-separation.

Regards

William

Thank you for your responses so far, and your empathy.

To answer a couple of the queries raised, the eldest is soon to be 21, and we no longer contribute for him, but instead paid the same amount between the two younger children as previously described.

My husband is employed full time, and the calculations based on his gross salary can't be argued with - unfortunately as I am only earning minimum wage it leaves us in a very tight financial situation. The amount they have calculated is £550 a month all to the mother - our previous costs were a little more than that, but the money was split evenly 3 ways more or less to the mother, the kids (allowances and savings accounts) and travel/outings.

Now that virtually all of that cost will go direct to the mother, my husband will no longer be able to visit them regularly (it's over an 80 mile round trip each time) let alone take them out or give them money for allowances or savings.

He is devastated! It breaks my heart to see him so sad and withdrawn!

We have written to the mother to ask her if she will continue the monthly allowances and savings contributions, but we don't hold out much hope of that. The middle son seems unfaxed by this, but I am sure in a month or two it will sink in for him and his little sister when Dad has been conspicuously absent and they haven't had any allowances as usual.

So - a greedy woman full of spite has managed to improve her own financial situation whilst singlehandedly cutting off her kids fledgeling financial independence and their father's access all in one fell swoop! 🙁

I just don't know what to do - can we appeal this, or go to a family court to try to force access and reduced payments to enable him to visit? What are our options??

So I guess a small update on this and one final question for any readers - we are proceeding with all the instructions from the CMS and our payments are meant to start next week, however the mother is refusing to give us her bank details.

She has instead given us her 16 year old son's bank details and said she will need time to be able to set up a new bank account for receiving the maintenance payments weekly.

What the [censored] is this all about? Surely this can't be ok, to refuse the payments into her usual account and request we make then to her child? Our solicitor said not to but CMS said do it for bow because it's (apparently) only temporary and to refuse makes us the bad guys and incurs penalties.

Can anyone give us a steer? Needless to say we are even more convinced she is committing benefit fraud because of this.

I would be inclined to agree with the solicitor to be honest. If you have the money set aside until she has a bank account set up then you just pay it once she's done it. Let's face it, you can have an account opened within a few days and there is no reason why she needs a separate account just for maintenance.

If you have the money set aside and she takes it back to CMS then you have the funds to pay it. I'm not sure where you might stand on CMS deciding to collect from you though and this can carry a 20% collection fee.

I have to agree it would appear she is trying to hide something with refusing to allow it to be paid directly to her bank account.

I agree with Yoda - withholding the money until you have the bank details might be classed as missing payments. I would confirm the bank details you have with the CMS, and if possible, get acknowledgement from them in writing that this is accepted for the payment of maintenance, and if it is, then you are clear to make the payments.

Thanks Yoda and ACTD, appreciate the responses.

We can't withhold payments, our solicitor says not to use the child's back account, and the mother won't give us her bank details. She said she doesn't want us accusing her of using the money for herself if it goes into her own account so is going to set up a separate account for receiving maintenance payments. She has not had any bills in her name for the last 10 months so will likely find it difficult.

She has had 7 weeks to set up another account since instigating the CMS and hasn't done it yet. We think she is trying to appear helpful with this whole 'temporary account details story' to comply with the CMS timeframe so they don't cancel her case, whilst forcing us into doing the wrong thing, either paying the money to the teenage son or withhold until we get the right kind of account.

I think I have a way through this though - we have her email address and my husband has a PayPal account, so we will send the payments via that. Of course she could still refuse the payments, but then she will be the obstructive one and not us. So, PayPal it is, for now!

Thanks all, and will keep you posted!

Make absolutely sure you quote maintenance on the payment so that it's clear what it's for. Another snag is that I think paypal may charge her for receiving the money - if so, then she could say she has't received the full amount, or alternatively you can pay the charge at your end, but obviously that's a cost to you.

If you have her mobile number, you could register with your bank for PAYM (or Barclays Pingit I think, but I don't know that system) and pay direct to her mobile phone - she then registers that phone to an account to receive money. I think that may be a free service with participating banks.

Thanks ACTD - we spoke to the CMS about making a PayPal transfer but they advised against it, in case she doesn't have a PayPal account. If she doesn't then there could be delays and costs for her to access the money sent.

So far they are backing us on the need for her bank account details, we have set the first payment aside and will do the same next week if we don't get her bank details still.

We are calling CMS every other day for an update, they say she isn't answering the phone when they call her. They also said that if she continues to ignore them and not respond then there's a danger her claim will be cancelled... I shouldn't think that will go down well!

So now we continue in a holding pattern, waiting for bank details and calling CMS every other day for an update. We have spoken now to half the members of the day team there by now and all know about our case - ironically they think she's being an idiot too! I think she's up to something.

And all the while she gets no money, neither do the kids. That's the worst part!

People are weird. And selfish.

We have her mobile number but it's a PAYG account which she often runs out of credit for, so it isn't linked to her bank for direct debit and we can't use it to make payments.