[Solved] Definition of "Overnight Access"

I'm under the impression that the court wants parents to work these things out amicably (surely not always possible if you've had to go to court for access?!).

In my partners case, the cao clearly states exact times and drop off location so that his ex couldn't continue to be awkward. So you might be able to go back to court for a more defined order if there's no possibility of agreement between you.

Hi there

You would need to try mediation first as this is now a requirement before a court application can be made....hopefully you can sort it out there as you had been amicable in the past.

If this fails then you would need to apply for a variation of the existing order.

Spottedtree is right in that the courts encourage parents to reach agreement between themselves where possible, unfortunately as your relationship with your ex has deteriorated you may need to return to court to get some definition written into the order.

During the holidays it is generally accepted that the non resident parent gets a share of the holiday periods to allow for holidays away to be taken, do you have such definition in your current order?

hi yes, I have it defined that i get a weeks holiday in the summer

with regards to mediation, I fear that it will be fruitless in my case.. She is arguing that why should she have to pick them up from school when it is my day of care... although my interpretation of 'overnight access' is not 'day of care'

Would speaking to a solicitor and progressing a variation in the order be a good idea?... would my case (given the details provided above) be looked on favourably by a judge to get 'overnight access' defined as 5:30pm till morning ? or would she have a valid argument that she shouldnt have to pick them up from school that day ?

Mojo is correct in saying that you have to attempt mediation before you can apply to vary the order. Our cao was defined from the start, as we could foresee continuing problems in the future.

So first things first, if you're getting nowhere negotiating between yourselves, try to find a mediator. If that doesn't work out i think the mediator can sign a form to allow you to apply to court for a variation.

Are you both working? Is that why she wants you to have the kids all day?

As a side note, there's no set definition for overnight contact. It doesn't have to mean 24 hours. Every situation is different.

Hi and welcome to the forum

I would really start with mediation here as it's mandatory before attempting court. A solicitor cannot negotiate a variation of the order for you in the legally binding sense (only a court order provides that) but they could write a letter to try and broker agreement.

If the mother isn't working, then pickup at 5.30 from her home is reasonable and a return to her at 9am on Weds in holidays (unless it's your holiday time with them) is also reasonable.

If the mother is working then a reasonable childcare arrangement needs to be put in place for times when you are both at work.

In either scenario, have you thought about an after school club on Tuesday as an option? If the children are supposed to be in your care, if they go to the club, you can then pick them up from there when you finish work?

to be honest, Id just run with it, its probably 12 days per year, take the leave or do different hours on those weeks.

If its your day and night and shes not in school, its still your day and night IMO

Hi and welcome to the forum

I would really start with mediation here as it's mandatory before attempting court. A solicitor cannot negotiate a variation of the order for you in the legally binding sense (only a court order provides that) but they could write a letter to try and broker agreement.

If the mother isn't working, then pickup at 5.30 from her home is reasonable and a return to her at 9am on Weds in holidays (unless it's your holiday time with them) is also reasonable.

If the mother is working then a reasonable childcare arrangement needs to be put in place for times when you are both at work.

In either scenario, have you thought about an after school club on Tuesday as an option? If the children are supposed to be in your care, if they go to the club, you can then pick them up from there when you finish work?

I agree, in part, for the mother, who may or may not be working, yes its a bit arsey but if she is. On that tues-weds dad has and she collects from school or makes arrangements, isnt it only fair that dad makes the arrangements on this day of the week in the holidays? mum is doing the other 4?

Id try to consolidate my working hours or take leave, theoretically its an offer of MORE contact between school pickup and school drop off thats dad's time, am I making sense?

I dont think its right to have and argue for contact then when its becomes inconvenient (im not saying this about the OP) it becomes default to mum to re-order herself to manage the inconvenience. ESPECIALLY if she works. If not shes being super arsey.

To the OP, no she cant dictate and the school does and or as Yoda said theres a reasonable finishing work time, after school clubs and whatnot. TBH if you have a CAO Im surprised this didnt come into it?

hi yes, I have it defined that i get a weeks holiday in the summer

with regards to mediation, I fear that it will be fruitless in my case.. She is arguing that why should she have to pick them up from school when it is my day of care... although my interpretation of 'overnight access' is not 'day of care'

Would speaking to a solicitor and progressing a variation in the order be a good idea?... would my case (given the details provided above) be looked on favourably by a judge to get 'overnight access' defined as 5:30pm till morning ? or would she have a valid argument that she shouldnt have to pick them up from school that day ?

...As Yoda has said and I agree, if the mother isn't working on that day then it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect her to agree to a 5.30pm pick up. If she is working however, the judge may feel that it is fair for you to share the burden of child care costs on your day, there's no way of knowing whahich way the court would go with this.

As Yoda suggests, if it is the case that mum works too then it might be a good idea to look into the after school club as an option rather than go through all the strain that court actions places on everyone.

Best of luck