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Hi all,
Back in February 2013 I received a call from the CSA saying that I owed arrears of £352 to my son's mother. This sum was money that was backdated to 01 June 2012 . During this period I was in fact giving the mother money privately for maintenance and at the time I informed them that I had already paid the money they wanted me to pay. I was not even aware that a case had been opened with the CSA or that I had the option to pay this money through the CSA until feb 2013 as no one had ever called me to ask for any money prior to that.
being somewhat appalled at the service the CSA had provided, I convinced the mother to close the case (or so I thought) by paying her off the debt privately and continuing to pay for maintenance amicably.
In November 2014, 2 years later, I received a call from the Child services telling me, to my complete surprise, that the case had only been put on hold and that the mother has now requested for me to pay arrears of £750 including the £352 from feb 2013, which I will be paying to her for the third time!
I told the Child maintenance services that I would like to challenge their decision, they went back and listened to conversations they had with myself and the mother back in February 2013 and decided not to change their decision on the basis that in 2012 the mother had said that she had received the £352 from me, but that it not been given to her as child maintenance. (Why on earth would it be considered to be anything else?)
Again, I continued paying the mother child maintenance until June 2013. At that point we were in court and she refused to take any child maintenance from me so that she could tell the court that I was not giving her any maintenance. Though none of the payments I made are being considered by Child maintenance.
Most of the money was given to the mother every other week cash in hand without receipt. (I know, big mistake) I do have evidence in the form of bank statements that I have paid the mother at least £160 but they will not consider these payments either as the mother simply says that none of these payments were for child maintenance.
I was also told that I should have raised my concerns back in 2013, even though I had clearly stated on the phone to them that I had already paid the mother this money, and this was the reason the mother put the case on 'hold'. Once she put the case on hold and I payed the mother the money I never heard from them again about that £352 so I assumed everything was hunky dorey...
Last but not least, no one, neither the CSA or the mother, has ever contacted me or asked me to pay any more money than what was agreed privately between me and the mother and already being payed (besides feb 2013 and nov 2014). These are payments I would have been more than happy to make, granted that someone had actually gotten in touch with me to inform me of that I owed this money in the first place.
So, I guess my question is, do I really have no other choice but to pay the £352 for a third time? and if so, how on earth is it even possible that the child maintenance agency can be allowed to run this way? surely they cannot possibly be so clueless as to not know how unfair they treat certain parents and the inherent dangers of giving the requesting (possibly extremely spiteful) parent so much power over the other. From my personal experience with them, they will always take the word of the parent receiving the money as truth even if what they are saying is extremely unlikely.
The only evidence I have of payments besides bank statements is a phone call I recorded back in feb 2013 where she admits that I have been paying her money for maintenance and that she would have it deducted from the CSA. In the call she also admits that she simply did it because she hates me and wants to ruin my life. Though the child maintenance person I spoke to, although very nice, couldn't have cared less. I just find the whole thing totally unbelievable...
Thanks for your help! 🙂
Another point I forgot to mention is that the mother is claiming I only have my son over for 49 nights a year. That's what the court order states as "official" dates, but in the court order it also mentions that I can have my son on any weekends we agree on between ourselves. (not very often as he lives a 6 hour drive away) These extra weekends bring the total nights that my son stays with me to over 52 nights a year (allowing for shared care rate) but again, they will only listen to the receiving parent even though I am telling the truth. What is more worrying is that as a result of this , the mother is very likely to stop me from having extra contact so as to make sure I pay more instead of seeing him more. (I will now only be allowed to see him during school holidays)
Is there nothing I can do about this? you would have thought they would be encouraging contact not restricting it.
Hi and welcome
The unfortunate fact is the the CSA will take your ex's word for it that the money was for something else, and you are almost certainly going to have to pay that money again. This time, and from now on, either pay the money through the CSA (preferable option) or at the very least, directly into her bank account clearly stating "Child Maintenance" on the reference. I would say that you shouldn't pay cash direct to her as she might then say that you faked the receipt you'd need to get from her each time. You also need to make sure that you aren't in arrears in for when your case gets transferred to CMS (if you are still paying maintenance then) so that you can go onto direct pay, otherwise they may put you onto collect and pay, which will cost you a further 20%.
You could speak to your MP and ask them to raise a complaint against the CSA - it may get some results and doesn't cost you to do so.
Thank you for the reply, much appreciated 🙂
Is direct pay an option if the mother insists on collect and pay? the mother is insisting that I use collect and pay and refusing to let me set up a direct debit directly to her account because she wants me to pay the extra 20 %. I didn't think I had the choice to not pay the 20 %.
Also, in the phone call I have recorded between the mother and myself back in feb 2013 she happily admits that she has lied to the CSA, that I had paid her the £350 for child maintenance, that she is using my son against me and that this is just one of steps she has taken to 'ruin my life'. The CSA say that you are allowed to challenge their decision, but in my case they are refusing to let me provide evidence. I suppose there's nothing I can do to make them listen to the call?
One more thing... Since the CSA have called, the mother has now restricted my contact with my son (to 49 days only) to make sure that I see him less than 52 days a year so that I have to pay her more money. I had told the CSA that I see him more than that (I usually do) but again, they took the mothers word for it.
It seems a little silly that for 3 days difference they would rather take the mothers word for it and as a result limit contact between my son and me. I'm assuming as well that there is nothing I can do to challenge this?
That's the problem with the 52 day multiple -unfortunately, again there's not a lot you can do to force the extra 3 days to get back the reduction, and if you go to court to get the extra contact, they will not want to hear that it's a financial reason for doing so.
The CMS shouldn't penalise you if you are willing to pay, just because your ex isn't playing ball, so make sure they don't. As for the recording, I think it would be worth asking your MP to raise a complaint with the CSA, transcribe the recording for your MP, but ask them to listen to it - it's worth a try as it doesn't cost anything, and an MP can raise a complaint at a higher priority than you can.
Thanks, I will get in touch with my mp about it. My issue with the 52 days isn't financial, I've calculated that I am only paying 3 pounds extra a week which I would happy to pay anyway regardless of whether it's above or under 52 days if it meant that I could see him more. My issue is that the mother has limited my contact further to make sure it is under 52 days a year so that I have to pay more. If the mother allowed the extra contact there would be no financial advantage to me as it costs me £120 in petrol to every time I see him. The point is not that I want to pay less monthly but that I want to be able to see him more regularly. Court would not really be an option as I have just spent two years in and out of court with the mother and it is a nightmare, the courts and CAFCASS are just as biased when it comes to non resident parents.
there is nothing to stop the two of you coming to a family based arrangement, through the CMS, for more than the minimum if she is prepared to give you extra days access, might be worth a shot.
Hello Actd
Just to make you aware that a family-based arrangement is an agreement between both parents to decide on who will provide what for a child. They are not legally enforceable and there are no strict rules or formulas to stick to. Family-based arrangements are not arranged via the Child Maintenance Service.
For more information on the different ways to set up child maintenance, for a more personalised service and for full details on the different ways maintenance can be arranged via the Child Maintenance Service, you can visit the Child Maintenance Options website at http://www.cmoptions.org.
The DWP have a sorting out separation web-app that you may find useful. It offers help and support to separating and separated families. The link is: www.dad.info/divorce-and-separation/sorting-out-separation.
Regards
William
Hi William - thanks for clarifying that. 🙂
Thanks, a family based arrangement is out of the question as this would make things too easy for me. The mother will always choose whatever she thinks will make things more difficult, if she can lie, blackmail or manipulate any situation to do this, she will do so without failure.
It sounds surreal but i'm not kidding, her hatred is so intense that there is no debating anything ever. She does what she wants and that's that.
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