[Solved] Cms = skint

If you've sorted it out with your ex, then if CMS do charge you an extra, hopefully you can arrange with your ex not to pay that month direct to her. Make absolutely sure that you have proof you are paying to your ex - ideally by standing order stating "Child maintenance" as the reference.

Hello all, I've literally just joined here so please excuse me if anything here is in the wrong place etc, just looking for a bit of a hand like many here I suppose. I'll outline my situation and if anyone does have any helpful comments that would be fantastic, thank you.

Some time back I had a very brief relationship with someone I knew. She was married when I first met her via work, then we met again later. When we met again she told me she was single and we slept together once and she told me she was using the pill, I also used a condom but am concerned she may of sabotaged it somehow, almost immediately after she told me she was actually still living with her husband. I didn't hear from her again until I got a text saying she was pregnant, I rang but she refused to talk with me. Eventually she did, however refused to meet me face to face, said that she was too far gone and was keeping the child. I heard no more until a recorded delivery letter arrived at my flat with a photo of a child. She's written on the back saying she wanted nothing from me, but thought I might like to see my daughter and left only an email address.

I didn't contact her as didn't believe the child was mine, the reasons being;
She was still living with her husband as she told me.
She was in the paper for having a relationship with a murderer who was an inmate at the prison she worked at. She was sentenced for wilfully neglecting to perform duty/misonduct in a public office.

So it was my belief that the child was either her husbands or the inmates and that she had got pregnant to avoid a custodial sentence, which she did avoid. I also believed there was a strong chance she'd been with lots of others to try and escape the prison sentence.

The letter arriving also led to the breakdown of the relationship with my partner at that time.

So I heard nothing more until a Fathers day card arrived with a note saying "Sorry it's late we've been away". Also a letter was sent to my mother at her home address, stating she wanted nothing but wanted to know if my mum would like to be a part of the Childs life.

I'm very concerned how she got my mothers home address as she's not on the open electoral role, is ex directory and none of my friends would know the address, also I'm not on any form of social media. My concern is that she's got someone in the prison/police service to give her the address and also am concerned that she mixes with murderers and what may happen to my family.

Additionally I had identity fraud carried out on myself, someone got a mobile phone contract using my details, but registered from my mothers address. The inmate was sentenced for using a mobile phone in prison and I'm thinking that perhaps she had given my details or used them herself to set up a fake contract and give him the phone to use in prison.

So the other day I receive a letter from the CMS asking for me to pay a large amount of money. The figure they have me earning is £12k higher than what I actually do, I'm really worried as if I do pay what they ask I'll have less that £250 a month to live on after my outgoings as they are currently very high. I've contested that I'm the father with them and am awaiting a DNA test and results.

I've managed to contact her and arrange to speak face to face which is all I've ever tried to do from the initial messages I got from her.

I suppose my main questions are, has anyone else got experience of a situation like this and what did they do?
Has anyone got experience of challenging the CMS's information and adjusting their payments?
I have no issue helping financially if I am in fact the father, but should she not of contacted me first and tried to arrange something before going to the CMS?

Again, I appreciate this is lengthy and has a lot of information, but any pointers would be really well received.

Thank you.

1) You are over thinking the "how she got your mums address" thing - it is far far easier to find peoples details and find people than you think. Lots of public and non public records out there - and some people have great memory for small details. There is no specific reason anyone in the Prison service would have access to your mums address - and not much more with the police really. They have access to more records but its not like there is a single massive database with everyones info in it - in reality it just does not work like that.

2) They have gone to the CMS - e.g. they have gone to a Government Agency via official channels - not really a sign of someone who might want to use other methods to harass your family.

3) It is possible the identity fraud happened that way - but to be honest for someone who wants to do identity fraud you either do it with someone you are very close to so you can intercept mail etc - or you do it from a bunch of people in a much more random way. Lots of identity fraud ( like online bank/card crimes ) is done in bulk and more random using online data lists ( all the hacks/data-losses you hear about in the news often allow this kind of thing ). It might of happened how you suggest - but equally could just be a coincidence.

4) The CMS will of got your earnings from your previous HMRC tax return for the previous financial year. If you now earn less than that then the CMS will accept and take pay slips etc to prove your current earnings. Just a case of talking to them filling in the forms etc they provide and going through the steps.
Consider though that the amount calculated is based upon your total income for the previous year in the first case - so if you get dividends from anything, yearly bonuses etc then your yearly income is higher than "your monthly income X 12". It is the yearly total that is used for income tax and CMS calculations - not what you earn each month.

5) Make sure you complete and return everything in full to the CMS quickly and done accurately and fully. DNA test, variation forms etc. Any delays will just delay everything and cause the issue to go on for longer. Also arrears may build up at the wrong rate.

6) It is arguable maybe that there should be enforced communication between parents first - however kinda hard to enforce really - the situation you are now is that unless you can prove you are not the father then you are legally responsible.

7) Your outgoings ( and her income ) will not be taken into account unfortunately for you - it is based upon your total income alone using calculations and figures that are layed out in law and deemed to be acceptable to allow support of the child and enough left to live - think CMS is something like 12%. Obviously if the paying parent has lots of loans to pay, or high rent or car payments through choice then that cause problems - but ultimately will not be included in the calculation.

Thank you for the reply, lots of helpful information in there.

With regards to the income and calculation, the CMS have told me that they have my gross income from the HMRC at a figure which is much higher than what my gross income actually was. I've queried it already, they said that unless it's at least 25% different then they can't do anything about it and I'd just have to pay the figure they've given me.

I spoke with the HMRC and they had no idea how they would of got the figure they have, I spoke with work who routinely fill out and send back forms for the CMS and they said they'd received nothing. My P60 shows one figure and I've no other source of income.

So I'm confused and it seems they can get your income figure, add 24% to it and then charge you that and you have no course to change it. I called and told them that I'd be left very little (approx £250) to live on, they said someone would call me back but I've heard nothing.

All very confusing and concerning. As I said I don't have an issue helping if the child is mine, but it just seems unfair they can do things this way.

I spoke with the HMRC and they had no idea how they would of got the figure they have, I spoke with work who routinely fill out and send back forms for the CMS and they said they'd received nothing. My P60 shows one figure and I've no other source of income.

So I'm confused and it seems they can get your income figure, add 24% to it and then charge you that and you have no course to change it.

You get a statement from HMRC for each year stating what tax you have paid and what you earnt etc. You can ask HMRC to provide that to you. The Calculation letter ypu received in one of the later pages of it contains the exact details of exactly how they reached the calculation. Will include exactly what figures they used.

A P60 is only your income from 1 job, not other jobs and not dividends etc. So CMS will NOT accept that as evidence of your total earnings for a year - a P60 is evidence ONLY of income from 1 job - not your total income.

You can access your Annual Tax Summary online: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/annual-tax-summary. That is an official statement of your income for each year -will have your NI number on it - which CMS also use.

Something is wrong - doing the above will show you what.

That's excellent, thank you so much for the help. Have a great weekend.

Just to confirm that the 12% is actually Gross amount on wage slip takeaway any pension contributions and what's left is 12% of that.

I earn £30,080 a year
I currently don't see my daughter because my ex is a worker of the devil so total nights = 0
On the CMS they are quoting I must pay a total of £322.11
I am not in arrears with CSM or CSA and also payments are set up as direct debit and not collect and pay. How the [censored] do they work out £322.11 ?

I reckon it should be around £300 per month on your salary, either with CMS (12% of gross) or CSA (15% of net), so not sure where the extra £20 ish comes from, but it's not so wide of the mark.

Calculation is done based upon last HMRC tax return - not current earnings.

Plus earnings is not just wages but everything - military pensions ( I think ), savings interest, shares dividends, rental income etc.

Could be you have additional small income that tops up your income. Or could be overtime. Or could just be you do slightly less hours this year than last year.

On the calculation letter in one of the later sections it breaks down the calculation and it will give you a figure for how much they believe you earn weekly and where they got that info from.

That figure should be £619.44 I think.
Where as you are expecting it to be: £578.46

So its a different to £2,130.96 per year you are looking for or thinking about.